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Alfa Romeo 145 - 146 Forum > Technical > FAQ
CMA
Normally the 145 runs with the display gauge at around the half mark unless sat in traffic then it goes slightly above.

Mine has now started to only get to the 1/4 mark and never gets higher, the heater still pumps out the normal hot air but the gauge never gets above the 1/4 mark on the guage now. But it is consistant showing the same temp every time I go on a run in it.

Does this sound like a sender problem or is it a more in depth problem? Where is the sender? or any other ideas people?
CTRdude
QUOTE(CMA @ Nov 30 2005, 10:52 AM)
Normally the 145 runs with the display guage at around the half mark unless sat in traffic then it goes slightly above.

Mine has now started to only get to the 1/4 mark and never gets higher, the heater still pumps out the normal hot air but the guage never gets above the 1/4 mark on the guage now. But it is consistant showing the same temp every time I go on a run in it.

Does this sound like a sender problem or is it a more in depth problem? Where is the sender? or any other ideas people?
*


Does the car take longer than normal to heat up? i.e. the blower that is? If so, would defo say temp sensor.
gpfleming
despite you thinking the hot air from the heater is the same temp as before - it'll be the thermostat - even if the stat's only a year old - it'll still be the stat!

don't know if i've said this before - but having had 4 TS's now in 145 and 156 bodies - I've changed the stat on them all at one time or another because of cool running. Each time, normal running temp is restored afterwards.

It's bl**dy annoying I know - especially at over 40 and an hours work each time!! rant.gif
CMA
QUOTE(145dude @ Nov 30 2005, 11:57 AM)
Does the car take longer than normal to heat up? i.e. the blower that is? If so, would defo say temp sensor.
*


Seems to warm up in the same time as usual just the guage doesn't go up to the half mark anymore
CMA
Bit cheaper....

[attachment=1383:thermostat.jpg]
sweens308
Agreed its definitely the thermostat. The symptoms are exactly the same as mine before I had it replaced a couple of weeks ago. Agreed it's annoyingly expensive, but you have no choice.......I wouldn't buy a second hand one.
CTRdude
Yes, same here, had to replace it on me old 156 before too. Who needs skin covering their knuckles, anway?!
gpfleming
QUOTE(CMA @ Nov 30 2005, 11:22 AM)
Bit cheaper....
*


CMA - nice one - if that's the one that fit's your 1.6TS??? - look carefully mate 'cos certainly a lot of the QV's have the alternative stat with the extra bottom hose connection - the one that's 8 more - and NEVER on offer! rant.gif

even if that is the one - by the time you've added a litre of paraflu - and postage - and the VAT! - it'll be over 40!! angry.gif
CMA
QUOTE(gpfleming @ Nov 30 2005, 01:31 PM)
...a litre of paraflu...


Whats that?
CTRdude
The stuff that p**ses on the floor when you disconnect the hoses laugh.gif
CMA
more commonly known as water and anti-freeze then
CTRdude
QUOTE(CMA @ Nov 30 2005, 01:58 PM)
more commonly known as water and anti-freeze then
*

That'll be the stuff.

If you have not tackled this before, I would advise buying replacement hoseclips too, as you will undoubtedly snap the originals off.

[attachment=4666:TSpark_T...lacement.pdf]
(document source: http://members.lycos.co.uk/gazza82)
CMA
Cheers for that.
Mave
QUOTE(gpfleming @ Nov 30 2005, 12:03 PM)
It's bl**dy annoying I know - especially at over 40 and an hours work each time!!  rant.gif
*

How did you manage to do it so quickly? I did mine for the first time on the weekend, it took me the best part of two hours to get all the hoses off the old one, what with those bl**dy stupid clips and 118K miles of the hoses welding themselves to the thermostat pipes. (Although to be fair I probably spent half an hour of that in total back in the house drinking tea trying to warm up, and tending my wounded knuckles!)
gpfleming
QUOTE(Mave @ Nov 30 2005, 09:22 PM)
QUOTE(gpfleming @ Nov 30 2005, 12:03 PM)
It's bl**dy annoying I know - especially at over 40 and an hours work each time!!  rant.gif
*

How did you manage to do it so quickly?
*



sadly it's just practice........................I've done 4 of the muthers now!! - wink.gif

ps......................always, always remove the battery!
Mave
Aah, I did notice the battery got in the way quite a lot (especially in the way of my knuckles...) but I was worrying about annoying the electrical gremlins and finding I needed my keycode or some other such annoyance. Thanks for the tip though, I'll bear it in mind next time smile.gif
CMA
One Thermostat and one AFM on order now from shop4parts, just off to boots to buy a batch of plasters to cover my knuckles...I'll report back with the results when it's fitted....
jamesgrrr
if it is broken what difference will it make to the car, apart from obviously showing a lower temp?
pimp
I changed my rad and themo in 1hr, Plus i left the battery in there.
gpfleming
QUOTE(jamesgrrr @ Dec 2 2005, 01:53 PM)
if it is broken what difference will it make to the car, apart from obviously showing a lower temp?
*



James, Twin Spark t/stats are notorious for either opening too soon or staying open - resulting in an engine that is over-cooled such that it never reaches it's optimum running temp - between 85-90 deg. This obviously doesn't help the engine and doesn't help your pocket - re. fuel consumption.

..........and winter's here now - you want your motor up to temp as soon as poss. don't you! smile.gif - if your temp gauge doesn't get up to the middle within 10-15 mins of driving......................then stay there, no matter what the traffic!......................then your stat's bu**ered.


quick edit - misread your post mate! blush.gif
j300sjl
Think mine might be bu**ered as well then - just when I thought I had got away with a no cost year for once (on repairs) rant.gif
Mave
QUOTE(pimp @ Dec 2 2005, 03:04 PM)
I changed my rad and themo in 1hr, Plus i left the battery in there.
*

What, both in 1 hr? Do you have aircon? I presume you are well practiced?
jamesgrrr
QUOTE(gpfleming @ Dec 2 2005, 02:10 PM)
QUOTE(jamesgrrr @ Dec 2 2005, 01:53 PM)
if it is broken what difference will it make to the car, apart from obviously showing a lower temp?
*



James, Twin Spark t/stats are notorious for either opening too soon or staying open - resulting in an engine that is over-cooled such that it never reaches it's optimum running temp - between 85-90 deg. This obviously doesn't help the engine and doesn't help your pocket - re. fuel consumption.

..........and winter's here now - you want your motor up to temp as soon as poss. don't you! smile.gif - if your temp gauge doesn't get up to the middle within 10-15 mins of driving......................then stay there, no matter what the traffic!......................then your stat's bu**ered.


quick edit - misread your post mate! blush.gif
*



aha i thought it was costing me a little more than i expected for a 2l engine, i shall get that changed asap!
Darbs666
On shop4parts mate there are two Thermos.. Ones on a 'special' deal at the moment 21.95, the other one isnt..

Part numbers;

S4P456 (21.95)

and

S4P458 (29.80)

Both for 1.6 16v - 1.8 16v - 2.0 16v with no manufacture dates mentioned on either unsure.gif So, which one would i need for a 155Bhp (98) S Reg one!

I know the thermo is different in th pics, but still im a little confused blush.gif

and do you know if it comes with the sensor?

Cheers

Tim


http://www.shop4parts.co.uk
CTRdude
Something to do with the bottom hose connector then. Dunno what the implications are mind (don't want to post a guess), but I did read it in another thread somewhere ... blink.gif One for the EPER perhaps?!

EDIT: In fact was this one further up rolleyes.gif Maybe a QV only feature?!
Darbs666
yeah, they both have bottom hoses mind unsure.gif
CMA
Just got my AFM and Thermostat from Shop4Parts, very fast service, shame it's the wrong parts rant.gif Grrrrrr

The thermostat they sent has the bottom pipe as does mine on the car but there is another conector on the side that this one doesn't have (see pic and nice green arrow)

[attachment=1403:Thermostat1.JPG]

Also the AFM they sent has a different connector on it and different part number my original is: 02 80 217 111
the one they sent is 02 80 218 019

Off to write a nice little email now mad.gif
Darbs666
oh s**t matey, unlucky blink.gif

What thermostat did you order?

Maybe you need this one?



this is the S4P458 (29.80)

Did you get the sensor with the thermostat?
CMA
I ordered S4P456 thats one looks about right apart from the, what seems like, a double ended bottom link.

No sender came with the thing, but I wasn't expecting one
gpfleming
Guys - I did say be careful! rolleyes.gif - Take a good long look at your original one before you go ordering the new one.

regarding the medium sized hoses - the original Alfa ones had the forward facing medium hose on the SIDE of the stat - whereas the aftermarket ones from S4P generally have them on the BOTTOM of the thing!

This makes NO difference at all - it simply gives you a bit more clearance to work in between stat and battery tray.

Just make sure you have the right NUMBER of correct sized outlets facing fore and aft. smile.gif
CMA
From the insection of my existing 'stat it has one on the bottom as well as one on the side, so all connectors match up apart from the missing side one (see pic in earlier post)

(PS Darbs: I ordered S4P456)
CMA
Just had a reply from S4P (On a Sunday?)

QUOTE
I have checked against your chassis as to what is fitted to your vehicle and it seems you have a bit of an odd ball one. Both the thermostat and the air flow meter are not kept by ourselves for your car. It looks like these will only be Alfa parts.

For the incorrect ones please return them to the address at the top of the invoice and I will give you a full credit including your postage costs.



Thats fair enough in my book, good customer service. The only complaint I could have would be a bit more product information on their site with better/bigger pictures.

Cheers

Rob (With an Odball 145 blink.gif )
CMA
Hmm just managed to find my Eper, wish I hadn't now blink.gif

46407008 10223/01 CAPACITY MEASURER 205.10
60614140 10402/01 THERMOSTAT 42.72

+ the dreaded VAT makes it a near 300 fix!! Anyone know of a handy bank to rob?
j300sjl
I'm still a bit confused with this.

My Ti shows a temperature of about a third of the way up the gauge when I'm driving - when stuck in traffic it goes to the halfway mark (80'C)

Do I need to get it replaced ? Does it do any harm to the engine in the meantime?
Mave
QUOTE(CMA @ Dec 2 2005, 07:30 PM)
Just got my AFM and Thermostat from Shop4Parts, very fast service, shame it's the wrong parts  rant.gif Grrrrrr

Off to write a nice little email now  mad.gif
*

They do point out the difference between the connectors on the website.... I've personally had nothing but good service from them, whether by internet or over the phone blush.gif
CMA
QUOTE(Mave @ Dec 5 2005, 08:51 PM)
They do point out the difference between the connectors on the website.... I've personally had nothing but good service from them, whether by internet or over the phone  blush.gif
*


Check a couple of posts back up (link) they say they dont even supply the ones for my (odball) car. Plus the thing they point out on the website is the bottom pipe which mine has.

I'm still impressed with their service, quick delivery and quick to resolve the issue of my wrong parts will full refund, I will be using them again in a few weeks for some other bits...
Mave
QUOTE(CMA @ Dec 5 2005, 09:10 PM)
QUOTE(Mave @ Dec 5 2005, 08:51 PM)
They do point out the difference between the connectors on the website.... I've personally had nothing but good service from them, whether by internet or over the phone  blush.gif
*


Check a couple of posts back up (link) they say they dont even supply the ones for my (odball) car. Plus the thing they point out on the website is the bottom pipe which mine has.

*


Oops, sorry, don't know how I missed that post blush.gif
CMA
An update if anyones interested....

Just collected my AFM and Thermostat from the Alfa main dealer (or should that be stealer!) Wanted to charge me an extra 40 if I didn't exchange my old AFM as if 215 is not enough for a bit of plastic and resisters rant.gif So I had to change the AFM on the fly in their car park, luckily I had a screwdriver in the car. Now it's sat on the drive with the battery disconnected (as mentioned in previous threads to reset the values in the ecu) then I'll give it a good blat in the morning and all should be well fingcross.gif

Off to fit the thermostat tomorrow and change the water just for good measure, I'll report back if it solves my low temp running problem.... fingcross.gif
CMA
I've recieved a refund for my incorrect parts from Shop4Parts in the form of a credit note which is not much use to me, are they obliged to refund this way or should I be able to get the cash back?
CMA
Well new thermostat fitted replaced the water and antifreeze while I was at it as I can't remember the last time it was done. and cleaned out the throttle body as it was full of oily stuff all in took 2 hours no scraped knuckles but one hell of a large blood blister caused by nearly rounding off the lower nut on the 'stat.

Now runs at the normal temp again so thats one problem cured, bring on the next problem.....


(cheers for all the advice guys)
BGR
i guess i have the same problem and have to change thermostat...i wonder what is the average replacement time for it..mine is 95k km..i see many ts engines have same problem with thermostat
alfa146ts
i also want to change mine, but i cant find one. i have tried to find on ebay and other shops in england. but i dont think it is the same in my car.
someone know where i can buy one for my alfa 146 1,4ts 1998?
Mave
Try Shop4parts
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