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Alfa Romeo 145 - 146 Forum > Technical > The Rest Of The Car
alfizta
hello everyone!

car: 146 1.6 ts cf1
engine turns, but won't start. happened some months ago, waited for 30 min and it started ok.
happened again today after a 3 hours stop. plugged in MES for error code scan. report:

READING ERROR CODES:
1: 08 - Phase sensor
The code is set when the Camshaft Position Sensor signal is missing. Possible causes are:
- connector or wire problem in the signal circuit (open or short to 12V or ground)
- sensor installed improperly.
Check the connectors, wiring and proper installation of the sensor, and the signal waveform with an oscilloscope.
PLEASE NOTE:
Certain systems set always this code as long as the engine is not running. This is not a sign of fault
The sensor can be of inductive or Hall effect type
The reason for this fault is Unknown / No power supply
The current status of the fault is Impact occurred / Present
The error counter value is 2

cleaned up error codes. checked cam sensor blue plug for dirt. it was Clean. tried starting many times. no success. camshaft error is not showing up again.
battery is OK.
haven't got the time and tools right now to check power getting to sensor. will try tomorrow.
will dig the forum for issues like this.
any help appreciated.
dante giacosa
hey Alfizta-

Good to see another 146.gif team member!

You need to check the fuel pump operation and delivery, but it really sounds like the crank sensor..

Under the starter motor, at the gearbox side of the engine...

alfizta
thanks!

checked power delivery to cam sensor
one pin ground
other 5V
and final 12 V
I presume that is ok

checked power to crank sensor
one pin is ground
the other two are 1,3 V ???

crank sensor resistance is about 900 Ohm, but service says it should be between 486 and 594 Ohm ???

forgot to check fuel pump...
Belochio
buy another phase sensor.
dante giacosa
quite specific tolerances on the crank sensor-

Sounds like it is duff.

The cam sensor won't prevent the car from starting- the failure of the crank sensor; will

Ganz
I agree with Dante. If it starts after 30 minutes it sounds like the crank sensor. Next time it happens pour some cold water over where the crank sensor is situated and if that component is at fault you'll find as soon as it has cooled it will fire up again.

Great profile pic Alfizta. That picture is part of the "Never say die" album by Black Sabbath coolio.gif
alfizta
the funny thing is that when the part number 46411135 is googled, 900 ohm comes as specific resistance.
how trustworthy are these service manuals?

QUOTE(Ganz @ 13th May 2018 23:06) *
I agree with Dante. If it starts after 30 minutes it sounds like the crank sensor. Next time it happens pour some cold water over where the crank sensor is situated and if that component is at fault you'll find as soon as it has cooled it will fire up again.

Great profile pic Alfizta. That picture is part of the "Never say die" album by Black Sabbath coolio.gif


not by far my favorite BS album, but agree, awesome cover thumbsup.gif

the car is not starting at all since then. will try overnight...

QUOTE(Belochio @ 13th May 2018 21:07) *
buy another phase sensor.


please, I hope not. would be a major repair...
alfizta
I see a blink from the injector light after trying to start the engine and then turning off the key.
alfizta
should I expect to read a 12V signal in the fuel pump terminals with key on even with a faulty on no rpm sensor?
alfizta
hi everyone!

update here.

tested my 156 cf2 with rpm sensor unplugged. fuel pump still was activated, humming noise in the back was clearly audible when key is on.

tested the 146 again, fuel pump relay clearly clicks, but power doesn't get to the fuel pump as no noise is heard from the fuel tank area and i'm getting 0V at the fuel pump terminals when key is on.

i'm concluding the cause is a bad contact somewhere, but where?
alfizta
SOLVED!!! (somehow)

checked G73 connector by the left door, green wire, pin 9, jiggled the wires and connectors, fitted a voltmeter in place. turned key on, heard the humming noise from the back, voltage raised to 12 V and dropped to 0 V soon after. tried to start the car and VRUUUMMMMM!!!! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

i guess my first voltage test at the fuel pump terminals were quite inconclusive as the time it takes to leave the steering wheel and get to the back is more than enough to the voltage drop again. so take that in account when make this check.

thank you all!
shpuncik
fuel pump is activated for some time when ignition is turned on and is turned off if you won't start engine.
also if crank sensor is faulty it'll stall engine and you won't be able to start it. as Ganz said usually needs some tome to cool down so you could start engine again. however for the cam sensor, at least what I've seen on 156 JTD, if it's faulty engine won't rev above 3000rpm and if turned off won't start.
alfizta
QUOTE(shpuncik @ 19th May 2018 21:42) *
fuel pump is activated for some time when ignition is turned on and is turned off if you won't start engine.
also if crank sensor is faulty it'll stall engine and you won't be able to start it. as Ganz said usually needs some tome to cool down so you could start engine again. however for the cam sensor, at least what I've seen on 156 JTD, if it's faulty engine won't rev above 3000rpm and if turned off won't start.


well, then it is different at least with the 156 1.8 ts cf2. i tried to start her with the cam sensor off and she started ok. only the injection led light popped up.
alfizta
problem came back some days after. it happens that the issue was simpler than my first thoughts. actually the bad electrical contact was only on the power fuel pump connector, purple wire. contacts were dirty. solved by just a wash and clean.
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