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Alfa Romeo 145 - 146 Forum > General > News
930Tech
I like that.

airmike
QUOTE
FIRST LOOK AT ALFA ROMEO'S 4C GTA SHOWCAR AHEAD OF ITS PREMIÈRE TOMORROW

An artist's impression of Alfa Romeo's new showcar ahead of it's Geneva motor show tomorrow gives the best impression yet of the concept 4C GTA which will be closely based on KTM's ultra-lightweight 'track day special' X-Bow. Both Italian monthly magazine Quattroruote, which drew the impression, and Automotive News, have quoted sources familiar with the project as saying that it offers a very good likeness of the sports car concept that will be presented tomorrow.

The 4C GTA's styling unashamedly draws on Alfa Romeo's rich history and is in effect a scaled down version of the 8C Competizione with, the designers' also claiming, influence from the slippery Franco Scaglioni-penned, limited-edition 2.0 V8-engined Alfa 33 Stradale from the 1970s. This historical thinking can be seen in the rear 3/4 panel engine-cooling air intakes. The 4C GTA, as well as it's 8C Competizione influenced proportions and surfaces, carries over styling details such as the front wing vents, front spoiler lip and the headlights which are slightly more angular. The traditional front grille in the Quattroruote image meanwhile is firmly in the Zagato styling mould.

To create the new showcar, the in-house the designers at Alfa Romeo Centro Stile used the chassis and underpinnings of the KTM X-Bow, with Dallara, the Italian race car manufacturer which builds the carbon-fibre monocoque for the Austrian motorcycle company, creating new enclosed-cockpit carbon fibre bodywork for a car that is usually sold in a stripped-bare 'roadster' format. Some changes have been made to the monocoque to anchor the new bodywork which is also produced out of carbon fibre while the development of the interior has had to be thought out to take into account the X-Bow's high push-rod suspension packaging.

Alfa Romeo's 4-cylinder 1750 TBi turbo engine which, currently in its highest power specification (in the Giulietta QV), produces 235 HP, will be fitted in the rear. The production X-Bow – ironically, in light of VW’s pursuit of the brand – uses Audi’s turbocharged direct-injection 1,984cc TFSI engine, a unit that will form the mainstay of the new Alfa Romeo range when the VW Group is eventually successful in prising the 100-year-old brand out of Fiat’s grasp. The TFSI unit produces 240 HP and 310 Nm of torque with a 0-100 km/h time of 3.9 seconds. In the guise of the 4C GTA, power will rise only slightly to 250 HP.

Alfa Romeo also claims that the X-Bow's suspension has been reworked but as this is essentially a showcar it is unclear whether this is spin or of substance. Weight will rise by around 60 kgs thanks to the enveloping new bodywork and the 4C GTA's more production-specific cockpit.

There are however no plans to take the concept in to production, rather it gives the ailing brand a much needed touch of luster at a point where it has effectively been reduced to just two key models, the Giulietta and Mito; the former proving an instant hit since it arrived in the showrooms while the latter has lost it's initial shine. Most likely the key thinking behind the 4C GTA is to create a real visual boost to Alfa Romeo's waning fortunes inside the global spotlight that falls on the Geneva Palexpo during the international motor show which may help the ongoing negotiations with VW to sell a brand that is losing value.

With the KTM X-Bow starting at around 52,000 euros (plus taxes) and Dallara having developed a new full bodywork section in carbon fibre, all along with the fitting of a trimmed cabin, it would be simply unfeasible to develop the project to a point where the loss per unit justified the potential halo effect. Automotive News has today suggested a sale price of 45,000 euros, which it claims comes from project insiders, a figure which is already well below the base cost of the spartan, open topped X-Bow, before all the upgrades are taken into account. The citing of a 2012 production target is also distant enough for the 4C GTA project to be long-forgotten before that date looms around.

Fiat's senior management are also aware that while the recent limited-edition 8C Competizione was very well received and gained much publicity it is difficult to perceive where this sports car actually translated into brand-wide sales. The 8C Competizione was also an expensive project which diverted management and design time. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne, who as the hands on FGA chief has the final say on any green light given to a project within Fiat Group Automobiles, is noted for his pragmatism when it comes to volumes, and he would be highly unlikely to sign off the cost associated with this project.



(vir: http://www.italiaspeed.com/2011/cars/alfa_..._gta/2802.html)
NaanBread
ooo wow I like that!
Macca
IN LOVE, is it ok to marry a car, not sure the mrs would be impressed with ' but dear you dont have a carbon fibre chassis' in all fairness
langers
That is f**king beauuuuuuuuuuuutiful!
cloverboy145
QUOTE(langers @ 2nd March 2011 07:59) *
That is f**king beauuuuuuuuuuuutiful!



I just rated it a 10 on the PH ometer worshippy.gif worshippy.gif

get the average over 8.89 folks.
NaanBread
it is just fantastic! what a brill idea this car is! way better than the stupid new 147 which I cant spell!
Macca
You mean the Giulietta Nath?
NaanBread
yeah lol

everytime I see one on the road I dislike it more and more sad.gif its just not an alfa! but I love the idea of a 4C biggrin.gif
airmike
A good post from the alfaowner forum:

QUOTE
Alfa Romeo Press Office June 2013: "After several months delay, the long-awaited 4C GTA will be in showrooms by the end of October. Styled after the concept car that saw light at the 2011 Geneva car, the production version has been re-engineered to fit on the stretched Abarth 500 chassis, and is front wheel drive with the 1.4 litre MultiAir petrol engine tuned to give 165 bhp. This combined with the kerb weight of 1320kg gives sparkling performance........ 0-60 in 7.1 seconds and a top speed of over 129 mph. The carbon fibre chassis of the concept car was deemed to be too expensive for production and to ensure common parts across the Fiat range, much of the carbon fibre trim is now a decorative foil.
There is also a diesel version, and the 140 bhp JTDm2 engine can give up to 48mpg on the urban cycle.
The car is only available with the Dualogic gearbox pioneered on the Fiat 500 and will be left hand drive only.
Prices start at £54,500 with the Satin Lava Red paintwork a £1850 option"

Mr. Green

Let this be a warning! Don't get the Accounts Department involved!


whistle.gif
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(airmike @ 2nd March 2011 15:58) *
A good post from the alfaowner forum:
whistle.gif

"0-60 in 7.1 seconds and a top speed of over 129 mph" (so 129.1 mph then).

If that info is correct then it's pretty crap for a roadster type car that costs in excess of £54,000. with those figures I can't see many people buying except people with too much money who just want another toy in their garage for summer days.
airmike
QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 2nd March 2011 17:05) *
"0-60 in 7.1 seconds and a top speed of over 129 mph" (so 129.1 mph then).

If that info is correct then it's pretty crap for a roadster type car that costs in excess of £54,000. with those figures I can't see many people buying except people with too much money who just want another toy in their garage for summer days.


That post is pure sarcasm wink.gif
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(airmike @ 2nd March 2011 16:07) *
That post is pure sarcasm wink.gif

OK...I guess I completely missed the point laugh.gif laugh.gif
NaanBread
thats a rip off! Fiat need to sort there heads out otherwise they deserve to go bankrupt! and that is slow...once again they will loose out the MX5 bummers.
Junior145
clicky click

smile.gif
Robin
its not true nath, think 0-60 in under 5 seconds, look at the KTM X-Bow for similar performance, it's the same chassis.
shammon81
dunno why they keep making prity cars with let say less than great performance to its competitors...

brera
guiletta
mito
this new 4c

all nice looking cars, all get wiped out in performace in its similar cars in its catagoery

sad when the best brera is a diesel..... alfa's should not be about looks over performance. I dunno if they are trying to compramize performance, to gain reliabilty.. but we all love alfas for there performance and sacrifice reliability..... and reliability aint even that bad, just the d**ks that cant add oil to their cars, give us bad names tongue.gif
Macca
At lewast they made a pretty 147 in the gt lol
Macca
QUOTE(Junior145 @ 2nd March 2011 17:36) *



Even this quotes the power figures very low, how disappointing, a very expensive car with not a lot of performance= alfa being sold to volswagen soon then

Im gutted if its true cuz for 50 grand its crap value when a mito cloverleaf is just as fast
airmike
You guys didnt understand my post at al did you? Its just a prediction of what will happen when the accountants get involved. It's pure fiction! Because thats what ussually happens with alfa. They announce a GTA version but in the end its always a punto/bravo in a fancy bodykit with a diesel engine.....
shammon81
QUOTE(Macca @ 2nd March 2011 17:47) *
Even this quotes the power figures very low, how disappointing, a very expensive car with not a lot of performance= alfa being sold to volswagen soon then

Im gutted if its true cuz for 50 grand its crap value when a mito cloverleaf is just as fast


ye but isnt a abrath punto better than mito, maybe even fiat 500? i no alfa/ fiat are the same, but isnt alfa supposed to be the "performace car" there are load of small cars that are better in performance... i wouldnt mind if they had made the GTA mito, but you would just buy a mini jcw.

seems there just making these new cars for possers, and not serious car lovers like they used to sad.gif
Tifosi1976
QUOTE(airmike @ 2nd March 2011 17:55) *
You guys didnt understand my post at al did you? Its just a prediction of what will happen when the accountants get involved. It's pure fiction! Because thats what ussually happens with alfa. They announce a GTA version but in the end its always a punto/bravo in a fancy bodykit with a diesel engine.....



I got it straight away. The date at the beginning kinda gives the pisstake away.

Trouble is there are some VERY stupid, nay gullable folk on here biggrin.gif

You know who you are biggrin.gif

(stupid is meant in jest before anyone gets on their tall pony!!!)
Junior145
QUOTE(Macca @ 2nd March 2011 17:47) *
Even this quotes the power figures very low, how disappointing, a very expensive car with not a lot of performance= alfa being sold to volswagen soon then

Im gutted if its true cuz for 50 grand its crap value when a mito cloverleaf is just as fast


which video did you watch biggrin.gif all about power to weight ratio.
airmike
When i see one in the flesh in front of a dealer that's when i will belive that they are making it laugh.gif
930Tech
QUOTE(E500 TAT @ 1st March 2011 18:32) *
I like that.




QUOTE(Junior145 @ 2nd March 2011 17:36) *


I take that back, as they took the covers off it looked like a melted guiletta
shammon81
i just re read it :

Motive power will come from Alfa's 1.75-litre 1750TBi turbocharged petrol engine that will produce 'in excess of 200bhp'. That will be enough, says Alfa, to push the 4C from 0-62mph in less than 5.0secs.

is this a brand new engine ?

or made up BS

that engine would be sweet in the 145 tongue.gif

but i think for 50k and be branded "supercar" is bo****ks, 200hp should be in a hothatch, and 350 -500 in a supercar, i dont care if it weights as much as a fag packet, http://www.carmds.com/ nothing is as low as 200bhp lol

and it hardly looks like a stripped out light weight car, so dunno how on earth 200bhp, makes 0-62 in under 5 sec, so 0-60 in 4 seconds lol, sounds like the words for a italian thats had a few to many peroni's , this pics taken shorty after the press conferance http://byejustin.files.wordpress.com/2008/...unk_pooper4.jpg
Macca
QUOTE(Tifosi1976 @ 2nd March 2011 17:59) *
I got it straight away. The date at the beginning kinda gives the pisstake away.

Trouble is there are some VERY stupid, nay gullable folk on here biggrin.gif

You know who you are biggrin.gif

(stupid is meant in jest before anyone gets on their tall pony!!!)


I got it but I'm just pee'd off withe the predicted performance lol- bring back a mental v6 in a stupidly light hatchback! Like shamon says, its for posers not real driving enthusiasts now.

I'd never dispute the look though, its sooo pretty
Tifosi1976
QUOTE(shammon81 @ 2nd March 2011 18:09) *
i just re read it :

Motive power will come from Alfa's 1.75-litre 1750TBi turbocharged petrol engine that will produce 'in excess of 200bhp'. That will be enough, says Alfa, to push the 4C from 0-62mph in less than 5.0secs.

is this a brand new engine ?

or made up BS

that engine would be sweet in the 145 tongue.gif

but i think for 50k and be branded "supercar" is bo****ks, 200hp should be in a hothatch, and 350 -500 in a supercar, i dont care if it weights as much as a fag packet, http://www.carmds.com/ nothing is as low as 200bhp lol


it's the engine that's in the JOOOOOOOLietta and the 159

Prob going to be tinkered with.

it's deffo not 'supercar' territory, but neither is a Gayman or Elise or that VILE Z4, which is what it's aiming itself at.
Macca
QUOTE(shammon81 @ 2nd March 2011 18:09) *
i just re read it :

Motive power will come from Alfa's 1.75-litre 1750TBi turbocharged petrol engine that will produce 'in excess of 200bhp'. That will be enough, says Alfa, to push the 4C from 0-62mph in less than 5.0secs.

is this a brand new engine ?

or made up BS

that engine would be sweet in the 145 tongue.gif

but i think for 50k and be branded "supercar" is bo****ks, 200hp should be in a hothatch, and 350 -500 in a supercar, i dont care if it weights as much as a fag packet, http://www.carmds.com/ nothing is as low as 200bhp lol



Read this its real

http://paultan.org/2009/08/29/alfa-romeos-...i-turbo-engine/
Junior145
QUOTE(E500 TAT @ 2nd March 2011 18:03) *
I take that back, as they took the covers off it looked like a melted guiletta


must admit prefer the artistic impression airmike linked to, as front slightly reminds me of the alfa TZ2, which is probs my favourite alfa coolio.gif

QUOTE(shammon81 @ 2nd March 2011 18:09)
Is this a brand new engine ?

or made up BS

that engine would be sweet in the 145

but i think for 50k and be branded "supercar" is bo****ks, 200hp should be in a hothatch, and 350 -500 in a supercar, i dont care if it weights as much as a fag packet, http://www.carmds.com/ nothing is as low as 200bhp lol


It looks more aimed at a mini supercar, scaled down version of the 8C, rough calculation based on 200bhp at flywheel & weight of 850kg would be following acceleration, provided by letstorquebhp.com:

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 200
Weight without Driver (KG) : 850
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 239.07
0 - 60 (Secs) : 4.78
0 - 100 (Secs) : 12.28

Personally love the idea, sticking to previous alfa history with low weight - thinking GTA (minus 156 & 147 of course).

The 1750tbi engine is fitted to the 159 & Guiletta I believe.
Junior145
QUOTE(Tifosi1976 @ 2nd March 2011 18:23) *
it's the engine that's in the JOOOOOOOLietta and the 159

Prob going to be tinkered with.

it's deffo not 'supercar' territory, but neither is a Gayman or Elise or that VILE Z4, which is what it's aiming itself at.


dam i got distracted & then beaten to it..... what he says above smile.gif
Macca
QUOTE(Junior145 @ 2nd March 2011 18:29) *
dam i got distracted & then beaten to it..... what he says above smile.gif


It happens laugh.gif
Tifosi1976
QUOTE(Macca @ 2nd March 2011 18:35) *
It happens laugh.gif



not often with one of my posts!!! biggrin.gif (Usually wrong about everything biggrin.gif )
NaanBread
problem is at the end of the day people dont drive anymore, they commute to work. Thats it! thats why so many boring german cars are bought cos they have sad little lives.


If alfa want to do well, they have to produce a car that is 2nd to none. They need to get back on track! There used to be loads of Lotus Elises everywhere, Mx5s, BMW z4 etc etc if thats where there aiming with this car, it needs to be fast, striking and not get taken over by accountants.

Accountants ruin everything, they ruined tesco so I wont be surprised if they ruin Fiat.
Tifosi1976
how can they have 'ruined' Tesco?

It's one of the most profitable businesses in the world!

(I'm not applauding them, I HATE tescos and their 'might' destroying towns, and their crap 'fresh' food that's utterly tasteless. But from a business perspective it's incredible what they have achieved!)
NaanBread
nah tescos is w**k! was ruined by accountants in the late 90s and ever since then standards have dropped.
KaiserPingo
The problem is Sergio Marchionne, and "he's peope".

The are utterly boring.
When you make "Germanized accountants" leaders, things loose their soul and value.

Alfa should be allowed to follow true Alfa values, beeing light weight, true Alfa alu-engines, driving pleasure (dynamic driving), and some models with Transaxel-design.

AND NO Make-up mirror in the drivers side !!!

To day, the cars have become "fat" and the engines are slightly trimmed, heavy cast iron "Of the shelf" creations...

Design is a matter of taste, and to days Alfa's though beautifull, are a bit feminin in their design. But the front designs of the 159 (Brera style) is the best ever !!!

Sergio Marchionne is a "FIAT Only" monster !!!
930Tech
QUOTE(Robin @ 2nd March 2011 18:37) *
its not true nath, think 0-60 in under 5 seconds, look at the KTM X-Bow for similar performance, it's the same chassis.


It's not based on the Xbow chassis, it's a chassis made by dallara who also make the Xbow chassis, i think this is were that confusion comes from.

In this months auto italia mag it explains, in the Xbow it has no doors, you climb over to get it, in the 4C it has doors so its a new chassis.

I'm getting to like it now though, light weight, lotus type car, they want into the lotus market.
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