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Alfa Romeo 145 - 146 Forum > Technical > FAQ
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claude
Finally got round to it - see piccies. The oil temp one is not yet working although I've put the wiring in. Just need to fins somewhere for the sender (sump plug probably). The oil pressure shows a healthy 4 bar from 2000ish rpm down to just under 2 bar when hot and idling.

The pressure is taken from the side of the cylinder head, but I needed and adaptor made up to suit. The gauges themselves are readily availble including the binnacle shown (mounted upside down and hacksawed a bit rolleyes.gif ).

[attachment=5923:My_clocks_2.jpg][attachment=5924:My_clocks_1_.jpg]
GialloEvo94
I like those...quite subtle and they fit in with the styling of the cockpit quite nicely thumbsup.gif

I probably wouldn't plug the oil temp sensor in the sump plug hole as the sump is quite low anyway any you'll probably just end up smashing it off and dumping your oil all over the road which is probably not what you really want. Maybe you can T-off from somewhere around the oil filter? (or T-off from the place where you screwed the presure sender into) unsure.gif

Do you have any pics of the oil pressure sender mounted in the head? It was discussed before about the best location for one of these but no conclusion was ever come to although it now sounds like you found the ideal location smile.gif (I'm assuming it's the screwed in blanking plug that you removed from the right side of the head just behind the thermostat?).

Also, where did you get the pod that the gauges sit in?
alfa146
really nice and usefull gauges .. but r they sold the 3 gauges together along with that plastic housing ?? if so how much do they cost ?
cheers
sweens308
Really like them.....they look like they're meant to be there!

thumbsup.gif
claude
Yep all 3 gauges come already in the pod. Also rather nicely, being from za germans there is a sturdy steel pod behind the plastic trim where they're all bolted to so they're not going anywhere! I had to hacksaw a bit of each side of the steel pod and file the plastic trim slightly, but the main thing was that I took all the gauges out and mounted them upside down in the gubbins to get them to fit nicely in the DIN aperture under the stereo. The only 'butchering' to the car was to cut 3 small semi circles out of the bolt on plastic bar just under the stereo, to clear the top of the gauges. SO to turn it back to standar would be easy with no hacking of the centre console at all. As a finishing touch I replaced the bulbs with green ones from halfrauds to match my alfa clocks!

They normally come with the pod, trim and a mini loom (as mine did) which you can re-use to keep it all neat and tidy behind the gauges. Mine came with this and all the senders for 45 from fleabay. Make sure you do get the sendewrs included as the oil pressure sender alone is about 40 new blink.gif !! Just do a search for "audi gauges".

I'll take some pics of the sender location today and post them - you're right gialloevo the best place would have been to tee off from the head, the problem is then you can end up measuring head temperature moreso than oil temp - I'm assured the best place is somewhere in the bulk oil in the sump.
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(claude @ 27th August 2007 12:03) *
I'll take some pics of the sender location today and post them - you're right gialloevo the best place would have been to tee off from the head, the problem is then you can end up measuring head temperature moreso than oil temp - I'm assured the best place is somewhere in the bulk oil in the sump.

In which case you'd probably be better advised to carefully tap a new hole in the side of the sump and fit it there. Should then work a treat. If you measure correctly you might even be able to locate it somewhere which is around the same level as the halfway oil mark on the dipstick. You would then get an early warning if the oil dropped below half as the oil temp reading would be much lower than normal wink.gif
AJ
They look smart, very good job. Which Audi are they from? I've just ordered an SPA oil temp & oil pressure gauge which does the same thing but I wish I'd seen this thread a few days earlier!
claude
They're from an Audi 80 'sport'. They're the same gauges as a mk1 golf I think though but have a better shaped binnacle for fitting in a radio slot.

OK here are a couple of pics of the sender location. It's in the camshaft oilway drilling which is tapped with an M10x1.25 hole and sealed with a grubscrew from the factory. I took this out and fitted my adaptor (hewn from solid stainless steel billet I might add biggrin.gif ) which converts from the M10x1.25 to the M10x1.0 that the Audi sender is. Hey presto!

This is very handy as its also probably the best location for a pressure gauge, it being the furthest point from the oil pump. Which is ideal apparently.

I have a drawing of the adaptor needed in a word document, if anyone is interested. You would have to get it made at an engineering joint.

Like your idea gialloevo worshippy.gif kill 2 birds with one stone!

[attachment=5928:Alfa0002.JPG][attachment=5929:Alfa0003.JPG]
Jim145
thumbsup.gif They look great mate, just like they should be there.
claude
blush.gif thanks!
UKSPF
QUOTE(claude @ 27th August 2007 15:20) *
I have a drawing of the adaptor needed in a word document, if anyone is interested. You would have to get it made at an engineering joint.

I would be very interested in the adaptor, as i have just fitted a set of gauges in my car and its hard to find an adaptor or sender that comes with a M10x1.25 thread, Any help would be very appreciated.
returner
you can get tha adaptor from pretty much any hydraulic centre or fasteners outlet, im pretty sure any of the alfa senders will fit, they even have one on the 155ts but its fitted into the oil pump/filter housing.personnallly in my opinion if your fitting a oil pressure gauge then buy one that works on capilary action not a crappy electric one
purple
QUOTE(returner @ 10th September 2008 20:05) *
if your fitting a oil pressure gauge then buy one that works on capilary action not a crappy electric one


my 75 has such a gauge, bloody thing leaked all over my fusebox. rant.gif
SKYWAYMAN
QUOTE(claude @ 26th August 2007 23:01) *
Finally got round to it - see piccies.

they looks awesome and like factory fitted, have you got a price for a fitting service for us less mechanically minded members
returner
QUOTE(purple @ 10th September 2008 22:50) *
my 75 has such a gauge, bloody thing leaked all over my fusebox. rant.gif

was the excess twisted into a spring, because of the engine vibration you cant just have the copper pipe going straight to the gauge because it work hardens and snaps, it needs to be coiled into a spring to dampen out the vibration
UKSPF
Got it sorted, just tapped new threads over the old ones and it fitted perfect.
David
QUOTE(UKSPF @ 12th September 2008 19:21) *
Got it sorted, just tapped new threads over the old ones and it fitted perfect.



They look like the same gauges that were fitted to my Audi Coupe 2.0 16v
paulmakin
does the sender in the 155 feed both pressure and temp or is there more than 1? what about the 155 gauges themselves - anyone got a spare cluster to have a look at, mines in the garage and its dark and cold and scary in there right now?!

paul
returner
QUOTE(paulmakin @ 6th October 2008 21:00) *
does the sender in the 155 feed both pressure and temp or is there more than 1? what about the 155 gauges themselves - anyone got a spare cluster to have a look at, mines in the garage and its dark and cold and scary in there right now?!

2 sensors 2 gauges, does your oil pump housing have 2 blanks in the end of it where the cooler attaches, some do some dont, if yours doesn then its a case of either fitting the sensor else where or drilling and tapping or changine the pump/housing for a 155 one, as for oil temp you will need the 155 sump or you will need to drill and tap your existing one
Yellow 145
well i finally got round to installing my gauges and oil pressure sender unit, had to make an adapter from M10 1.25 male to 1/8 female , i ran a 1/8th hole through the center to match the hole on the sender unit that picks up the pressure could this be a reason to be getting a low pressure reading ? i have read that i should have about 4bar but i am only making 2bar
where is the 4bar pressure measured from ?
what sort of pressure do other people get after installing the sender in this location ?

[attachment=13344:oil_pres...e_sender.JPG]
xyy81t
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 21st February 2012 16:22) *
well i finally got round to installing my gauges and oil pressure sender unit, had to make an adapter from M10 1.25 male to 1/8 female , i ran a 1/8th hole through the center to match the hole on the sender unit that picks up the pressure could this be a reason to be getting a low pressure reading ? i have read that i should have about 4bar but i am only making 2bar
where is the 4bar pressure measured from ?
what sort of pressure do other people get after installing the sender in this location ?


id be interested in an adapter if you could make another? my pressure sender is currently installed on a sandwhich plate next to the oil filter, and when cold reads just under 3 bar at idle. when warm it reads 1 bar at idle but increases with the revs to about 3.5
IgoRR
where do you install the oil pressure sensor and the oil temp sensor?

thnx
black 146
QUOTE(IgoRR @ 22nd February 2012 19:05) *
where do you install the oil pressure sensor and the oil temp sensor?

thnx

hi have a look on the first page on this thread at the bottom whistle.gif
Yellow 145
i'm going to play around with some pieces to see if i can make a better adapter for the cylinder head
may be easier to get all the machining done at once so how many would be interested if i can do it ?
xyy81t
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 23rd February 2012 20:49) *
i'm going to play around with some pieces to see if i can make a better adapter for the cylinder head
may be easier to get all the machining done at once so how many would be interested if i can do it ?


coolio.gif i would!

Yellow 145
see what i can do for you fella
Yellow 145
spoke to a buddy with a lathe and he is going to knock me up a bunch of these as he will make a better and neater job than me !
i have asked for 10 to make it worthwhile all round , going to charge me 8 each and i will post them at cost so say about 1 or 2 postage depending on how many you want
should be ready in a couple of weeks,
PM me if you want one
xyy81t
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 29th February 2012 20:26) *
spoke to a buddy with a lathe and he is going to knock me up a bunch of these as he will make a better and neater job than me !
i have asked for 10 to make it worthwhile all round , going to charge me 8 each and i will post them at cost so say about 1 or 2 postage depending on how many you want
should be ready in a couple of weeks,
PM me if you want one


Cool, whats he making them from? Ally or steel?
Yellow 145
sorry going to be made in ally
IgoRR
Finally installed my sensors and gauges smile.gif

When the engine is cold(outside temp is ~ 15'C) the engine makes almost 5 bar pressure idling.

When engine oil reaches 90'C. At idling the engine gives 1,8 bar. At 3000 rpm 4,2 - 4,3 bar. At the redline it is about 6 to 6,5 bar.

When engine oil reaches 100'C. At idling the engine gives 1,3 bar. At 3000 rpm 3,8 bar. At the redline it is about 6 bar.

We can compare now smile.gif
xyy81t
QUOTE(IgoRR @ 2nd April 2012 17:23) *
Finally installed my sensors and gauges smile.gif

When the engine is cold(outside temp is ~ 15'C) the engine makes almost 5 bar pressure idling.

When engine oil reaches 90'C. At idling the engine gives 1,8 bar. At 3000 rpm 4,2 - 4,3 bar. At the redline it is about 6 to 6,5 bar.

When engine oil reaches 100'C. At idling the engine gives 1,3 bar. At 3000 rpm 3,8 bar. At the redline it is about 6 bar.

We can compare now smile.gif


where is you pressure sensor located fella?
IgoRR
QUOTE(xyy81t @ 2nd April 2012 18:50) *
where is you pressure sensor located fella?


In a sandwich plate, next to the oil filter wink.gif
IgoRR
a short video of the gauges, the engine is not fully cold:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2bzn8YA4WE...bd4Oz7lxJFJjA0=
kirk46
nice gauges biggrin.gif

got any other pics of them and how there fitted?
IgoRR
QUOTE(kirk46 @ 6th April 2012 15:43) *
nice gauges biggrin.gif

got any other pics of them and how there fitted?



thnx smile.gif

will film when the engine is at 90' C

Got only this pic-s:



work in progress


The sicked are connected via double sided sticky tape biggrin.gif

Didn't want to drill, they are holding on blush.gif
Cujo
Not bad smile.gif

Only thing: they are brighter than dashboard while they are too close to it.
IgoRR
QUOTE(Cujo @ 6th April 2012 16:50) *
Not bad smile.gif

Only thing: they are brighter than dashboard while they are too close to it.


Yes they are a bit brighter, but you can tint the glass with spray or foil wink.gif

They work like a charm smile.gif
Yellow 145
well forgot about these until my mate dropped them off Thursday , so fitted yesterday to make sure the threads are correct and has enough room to fit properly , cant believe what a nice job he made !
so now picking up 0.5 - 0.75 bar on idle and 2.0 bar at 2500 rpm ( i think the low pressure is due to removing the balance shafts ) will be fitting another on a standard 2ltr and 1.6 in the next week or so , so will post those readings asap

8.00 plus postage if you want one - PM me to sort payment and delivery

[attachment=13597:adaptor_1.JPG][attachment=13598:adaptor_2.JPG]
[attachment=13599:adaptor_3.JPG]
xyy81t
ooo pretty! coolio.gif is the PTFE tape necessary? did it leak before without it?
IgoRR
coud have used loctite coolio.gif
Macca
QUOTE(IgoRR @ 5th May 2012 20:03) *
coud have used loctite coolio.gif


Loctite is wayyy better for any oil system, over time ptfe breaks up and comes adrift and you never know what it may block eventually
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 5th May 2012 13:33) *
( i think the low pressure is due to removing the balance shafts )

Assuming you have phsically removed the balance shafts rather than just laving the balance belt off, have you blocked the oilways in the balance shaft chambers? This always needs to be done when removing balance shafts otherwise the oil pressure will be too low and you will run a high risk of oil starvation to parts of the engine that need a constant supply of oil at high pressure.
norro
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 5th May 2012 13:33) *
well forgot about these until my mate dropped them off Thursday , so fitted yesterday to make sure the threads are correct and has enough room to fit properly , cant believe what a nice job he made !
so now picking up 0.5 - 0.75 bar on idle and 2.0 bar at 2500 rpm ( i think the low pressure is due to removing the balance shafts ) will be fitting another on a standard 2ltr and 1.6 in the next week or so , so will post those readings asap

8.00 plus postage if you want one - PM me to sort payment and delivery


thats REALLY low pressure! my 155 is albeit a different engine variant, much higher! like its already been said, if you havent blocked the oil ways off, you best get cracking! smile.gif
black 146
QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 5th May 2012 21:43) *
Assuming you have phsically removed the balance shafts rather than just laving the balance belt off, have you blocked the oilways in the balance shaft chambers? This always needs to be done when removing balance shafts otherwise the oil pressure will be too low and you will run a high risk of oil starvation to parts of the engine that need a constant supply of oil at high pressure.



hi Ge i was thinking to do the same thing on my new engine. do you know if there is a thread on this please blush.gif
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(black 146 @ 6th May 2012 14:44) *
hi Ge i was thinking to do the same thing on my new engine. do you know if there is a thread on this please blush.gif

Nothing specific on balance shaft removal that I'm aware of although I think paddy took his out for his turbo engine so I'll try and find the post for you. On the Fiat/Lancia 16vt engines there are custom kits available to block off the centre bearing oil galleries and also to blank off the holes left in the side of the block when the balance shafts are removed but I'm not aware of any such kits being available for the twinspark angine so it would probably mean getting something custom fabricated if you can find someone willing to do it but it's unlikely to be cheap. The other option is to leave the balance shafts in place but just disconnect them and lock them off to stop them spinning randomly of their own accors which culd upset the balance of the engine. Doing it this way means you wouldn't be able to lose the ~3kg of redundant weight of the balance shafts but you wouldn't have to worry about blocking oilways or blanking off the holes.
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 6th May 2012 17:10) *
I think paddy took his out for his turbo engine so I'll try and find the post for you.

Here you go...

http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=119750
GialloEvo94
QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 6th May 2012 17:10) *
On the Fiat/Lancia 16vt engines there are custom kits available to block off the centre bearing oil galleries and also to blank off the holes left in the side of the block when the balance shafts are removed

FYI, this is a picture of the Fiat/Lancia 16vt balance shaft removal kit (plus a few other items which are nothing to do with the balance shaft removal kit). The items circled in green are "plugs" that go into the centre of the two balance shaft bores of the block once the balance shafts are removed and they get locked/wedged in place by tightening up the allen headed bolt which then blocks off the centre oilways. The items circled in green are core plugs that go into the balance shaft holes in the side of the block to blank them off.

[attachment=13602:FiatLanc...movalKit.jpg]
black 146
thank you worshippy.gif worshippy.gif that made good readying
i know that ian/ yellow145 had his core plugs for the end of the shafts made up so i think the rest of the plugs can be made nad not cost that much
or i will just get them locked
Yellow 145
i used ptfe tape as i did not have any locktite to hand it was just as a back up , no leaks . i will strip down clean and refit once i decide what to do with the balance shafts ,
i removed the balance shafts completly and made up an insert and deep core plugs then blanking plates to hold them secure , after looking at the lancia kit the inserts i had made were not as deep as that so that may be where the issue is ,
will have to think about either uprated oilpump or refitting another insert

may be simpler to leave yours in Lee and remove the belts and pullys
Thanks for the info GE
black 146
QUOTE(Yellow 145 @ 6th May 2012 19:45) *
i used ptfe tape as i did not have any locktite to hand it was just as a back up , no leaks . i will strip down clean and refit once i decide what to do with the balance shafts ,
i removed the balance shafts completly and made up an insert and deep core plugs then blanking plates to hold them secure , after looking at the lancia kit the inserts i had made were not as deep as that so that may be where the issue is ,
will have to think about either uprated oilpump or refitting another insert

may be simpler to leave yours in Lee and remove the belts and pullys
Thanks for the info GE



that's what we will do then. thanks mate wink.gif whistle.gif
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