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> Alarm / Immobiliser Keys
Uberf1end
post 12th April 2006 10:22
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Sorry, I am sure you are all bored with talking about this by now but I have a key/alarm problem which doesn't seem to be covered by other topics I can find...

I have 3 keys -
2 red ones with black rubber buttons on (for the central locking) and

1 burgundy one which is exactly the same shape but with no button (and where the red ones have a tiny coloured Alfa badge, this one has a larger 'engraved' version).

As far as I can work out, these are the two 'main' keys and the 'master'.

Now, the problem -

All three keys will unlock the door if physically placed in the lock. However, only one red key unlocks remotely and turns the alarm off...

The second red key will not unlock remotely and both it and the master fail to disarm the alarm so it goes off when I open the door (even though they unlocked the door for me...)

All three start the car fine.


So, I have one key that does everything it should and a master and a spare that will open (but only if placed in the lock) and start the car but not disable the alarm.


To me, this suggests that all keys still carry the code for the immobiliser but not the alarm (I can open the door, start the car and drive off with the alarm going if I use the spare or the master!!).

The 10 second three key swapping game I see here http://www.alfa145.com/upload/Alfa145Manua...omeo%20Code.PDF, appears to be for the ignition CODE which I do not have a problem with...

Is there a different method for re-programming a key to unlock the car remotely and disable the alarm?

Am I right in thinking that the master key isn't supposed to disable the alarm and simply carried the immobiliser code?

If so, does it sound like my spare red key is simply knackered (the little light doesn't come on...).

If it is, do I need a new key? Can Alfa programme a new key to work the central locking/alarm?

(BTW I have tried new batteries in the spare red key blink.gif )

angry.gif angry.gif

If anyone can actually be bothered to read this nonsense, any advice will be much appreciated.
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F355
post 12th April 2006 10:30
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Is there a different method for re-programming a key to unlock the car remotely and disable the alarm?

No

Am I right in thinking that the master key isn't supposed to disable the alarm and simply carried the immobiliser code?

Yes

If so, does it sound like my spare red key is simply knackered (remember, the little light doesn't come on...).

I would say so too.

If it is, do I need a new key? Can Alfa programme a new key to work the central locking/alarm?

Yes you do if you want a spare that can operate the alarm. The bad news is that the key is around £70 and you will need a code to unlock the programming sequence (which normally get lost).

I will have a look on ePer in a sec and post my findings...
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GialloEvo94
post 12th April 2006 11:04
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The fact that the key disables the immobiliser makes no difference because the transponder chip in the key isn't powered, only the alarm circuitry requires power from the lithium battery.


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F355
post 12th April 2006 11:56
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Right a new key for your car will be £71.91 (60624810)

But this is where it gets confusing. A 'Complete CODE1 Kit' is £68.21 but a complete lockset is £187.32

Unfortunatly ePer is quite vague so its probably best to take a trip down to the stealer.
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Francophile69
post 12th April 2006 12:03
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Are you also in possession of the small key to turn off the alarm? If so then you are in the same position as me. I haven't gotten around to sorting out my spare key, I'm sure I will one day when the other one stops as well. I'm not too concerned though as I always keep the alarm key together with the second key, for emergency use. As long as the key that doesn't work the alarm de-activates the immoboliser then you can at least get yourself out of trouble.
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GialloEvo94
post 12th April 2006 12:11
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QUOTE(Steve Hill @ Apr 12 2006, 01:03 PM)
Are you also in possession of the small key to turn off the alarm? If so then you are in the same position as me.
*

I don't think the facelifts have a key to physically turn off the alarm at the unit in the boot (if that is what you are talking about).

I don't have a key with mine and if I look under the little velcro flap on the righthand side in the boot where the key switch is on some alarm boxes there isn't a key slot on my particular alarm box (it is the original Alfa alarm system). I think I remember reading somewhere (maybe in the handbook) that the later cars don't have the ability to turn off the alarm with a key at the box but I'm not entirely sure unsure.gif


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Jim145
post 12th April 2006 21:12
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Yeah - I remeber from a previous thread that the facelifts can't be disarmed with a key. angry.gif


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Crazy Cabbage
post 12th April 2006 21:54
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Heh Meta systems rule....just pull the multiplugs out of the units tongue.gif
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Uberf1end
post 13th April 2006 11:17
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Thanks all.

I don't want to try it but I am going to make the assumption that the alarm would, ultimately, stop sounding so if the worst came to the worst, I could drive it with the spare.

I find this sort of business the most frustrating thing about modern cars. I had a 306 GTI which cost me the best part of £130 to get a spare key for.... rant.gif ohmy.gif rant.gif and I guess I should have learnt, I just believed the chap when he said the batteries must have gone in the spare...

Anyway, my local Alfa thieves have informed me that I will need the new receiver and a new key and two hour's labour to fit receiver and code both keys to the new receiver - £320 please sir...I said, fÜck that, I'll get a decent alarm mate...

I might get an alarm that speaks to amuse myself - just to make up for the pain of it all wink.gif
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GialloEvo94
post 13th April 2006 11:54
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I reckon that's bo****ks. You shouldn't need a new receiver just because you need a new key. They should be able to program a new key to your current receiver.

I would ring a different dealer and ask for a second opinion.

It's also worth looking in the Anti Theft Device Workshop Manual. I haven't read the pages in detail but I think there's a section about programming new and existing keys against the alarm system.


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GialloEvo94
post 13th April 2006 12:16
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Right...I just read the programming section and it seems that when you get the car from new you get a label with your keys that contains a 4-digit 'password' code which you use to unlock the system for accepting new key codes. This apparently needs to be done if you want to program new keys against it. I never got one of these labels with my car either sad.gif

I guess without the password code there is no way to unlock the system for accepting new key codes unsure.gif which means the only other option is to replace the receiver with a new one which will come with a new password code label.

Maybe there is something inside the actual alarm box (possibly a sticker) with this code on also...I don't know unsure.gif

So it seems that not only should you get 2 red keys and the burgundy master key with the car, but you should also get the alarm code label (this is different from the 4-digit code for the immobiliser's CODE system which has been mentioned in other threads).


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Uberf1end
post 13th April 2006 13:17
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That's how I have understood it too - two codes - one CODE for immobilser and one code for 'opening up' the alarm/central locking to accept new codes/keys.

Yet another example of how the world would be a better place if everyone was as obsessive as me...If I were ever foolhardy (or rich) enough to buy a car brand new, I would never allow such a thing to be seperated from the rest of the car.

That's the problem with the world today...people - there's just too many and most of them are useless mad.gif
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GialloEvo94
post 13th April 2006 13:45
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If you can be arsed and have time, it might be worth taking off the alarm receiver module and having a look to see if there is any kind of sticker on or in it that has the code printed on...you just never know...blink.gif

It's the unit by the rear view mirror with the ultrasonics mounted in it.


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F355
post 13th April 2006 14:37
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All these codes cause such a headache. I think most of the time they don't even come with the car. I don't know of anyone that has got these coded.

Apparently Alfa should have noted them down on the main database when the car was new. I think its a problem with having useless dealers... no customer service!

The best thing is that if you have a BMW E46 (AJ's new car) a full set of keys and all relevant bits (ECU's, locks...etc) is only £200 or so!
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laaf
post 17th April 2006 23:58
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I noticed a feature on Alfa red keys in this month's Car Mechanic magazine in the service station this morning.
The suggestion on the cover was that it would reveal all the secrets.
If someone gets it could they scan & post it?


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GialloEvo94
post 18th April 2006 09:09
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QUOTE(laaf @ Apr 18 2006, 12:58 AM)
I noticed a feature on Alfa red keys in this month's Car Mechanic magazine in the service station this morning.
The suggestion on the cover was that it would reveal all the secrets.
If someone gets it could they scan & post it?
*

Well spotted smile.gif

I ordered a copy online so if it contains anything useful then I'll post the information up unless someone else does so first. Let's hope the article doesn't turn out to be too disappointing (Mr pessimistic as always laugh.gif).

EDIT: Now posted HERE.


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