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> Duncan's 145 16vt, In the UK
Duncan
post 12th September 2011 20:37
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1.6 16v
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QUOTE(langers @ 12th September 2011 17:39) *
I thought it was for the fan? Deffo dont quote me on it though...


Think you might be right there, in which case I won't be needing it anymore.


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Bristolbilly
post 28th October 2011 11:53
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QUOTE(Alfa-Si @ 12th September 2011 21:22) *
From what I could figure I thought it was for the ABS...



How much power difference is there between the 20v And 16v?? And are these engines reliable?? Also does the fiat coupe engine just bolt straight in or do u have to mess around with engine mounts and every thing?
After I finish my Rs I would love to drop something in the 145 are there any other engines out there that I could plonk in it? Like the v6 from a GTV altho prob a bit heavy would be something different and very noisy
Cheers Lee
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930Tech
post 29th October 2011 11:10
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1.8 16v
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QUOTE(Bristolbilly @ 28th October 2011 12:53) *
How much power difference is there between the 20v And 16v?? And are these engines reliable?? Also does the fiat coupe engine just bolt straight in or do u have to mess around with engine mounts and every thing?
After I finish my Rs I would love to drop something in the 145 are there any other engines out there that I could plonk in it? Like the v6 from a GTV altho prob a bit heavy would be something different and very noisy
Cheers Lee


Our cars, the 145 and 146 are Fiat Tipo based, ie the chassis under the bonnet is the same as a Fiat Tipo.

Other cars that are Tipo based, Fiat bravo, brava, marea, coupe, barcetta (sp), tempra then Alfa 145, 146, 155, GTV and the Lancia dedra and a few others all have the same front chassis.

This means anything fitted to the above will fit in any of the others, it all just bolts up.

So anything from the 1400 bravo through 8v, 16v, twin spark, 16vt, 20vt to the V6 engines fit in using the mounts they use in the donor car will bolt in the same place, the subframes are all simular but mount to the chassis in the same way so using the engine and its mounts, the subframe and it's lower arms then the suspension legs and shafts and you can fit anything.

Diesel too i'd have thought, the only exception would be the boxer engines in the 145/6 as the set up is different.

The (Fiat group) world is your oyster blink.gif

My mistake, the barcetta is punto based but has the same engine block as an 1800TS.
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Bristolbilly
post 2nd November 2011 08:31
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QUOTE(930Tech @ 29th October 2011 12:10) *
Our cars, the 145 and 146 are Fiat Tipo based, ie the chassis under the bonnet is the same as a Fiat Tipo.

Other cars that are Tipo based, Fiat bravo, brava, marea, coupe, barcetta (sp), tempra then Alfa 145, 146, 155, GTV and the Lancia dedra and a few others all have the same front chassis.

This means anything fitted to the above will fit in any of the others, it all just bolts up.

So anything from the 1400 bravo through 8v, 16v, twin spark, 16vt, 20vt to the V6 engines fit in using the mounts they use in the donor car will bolt in the same place, the subframes are all simular but mount to the chassis in the same way so using the engine and its mounts, the subframe and it's lower arms then the suspension legs and shafts and you can fit anything.

Diesel too i'd have thought, the only exception would be the boxer engines in the 145/6 as the set up is different.

The (Fiat group) world is your oyster blink.gif

My mistake, the barcetta is punto based but has the same engine block as an 1800TS.

This all sounds very promising what are the power differences between the 16vT and 20vT tunnin wise and also is there any size difference between these engines as the 20v bein 5 pot and the 16v bein 4 I would imagen the 4 pot bein easier to install with it bein smaller with limited space in the engine bay already plus all the extra equipment needed for the turbo plus by the sounds of things it would be best to buy a donor car than source parts individually?
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IgoRR
post 2nd November 2011 11:41
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1.4 16v
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QUOTE(Bristolbilly @ 2nd November 2011 09:31) *
This all sounds very promising what are the power differences between the 16vT and 20vT tunnin wise and also is there any size difference between these engines as the 20v bein 5 pot and the 16v bein 4 I would imagen the 4 pot bein easier to install with it bein smaller with limited space in the engine bay already plus all the extra equipment needed for the turbo plus by the sounds of things it would be best to buy a donor car than source parts individually?


the 16vt is a better engine
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langers
post 2nd November 2011 18:10
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What makes you say?

The 16VT has a lower standard at 195hp, the 20VT Has 220hp. The 20VT engine only needs a 195 Live mapping session to see it anywhere between 240-260hp where as the 16VT requires a different exhaust, chip and FMIC. The 20VT is alot cheaper to tune and just as reliable as any other engine if the correct maintenance is carried out. Granted that the 16VT is a smaller engine and so slightly easier to work on... id still rather have the 20VT just for the noise!


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IgoRR
post 2nd November 2011 19:53
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QUOTE(langers @ 2nd November 2011 19:10) *
What makes you say?

The 16VT has a lower standard at 195hp, the 20VT Has 220hp. The 20VT engine only needs a 195 Live mapping session to see it anywhere between 240-260hp where as the 16VT requires a different exhaust, chip and FMIC. The 20VT is alot cheaper to tune and just as reliable as any other engine if the correct maintenance is carried out. Granted that the 16VT is a smaller engine and so slightly easier to work on... id still rather have the 20VT just for the noise!


The 16vt has greater tuning potential, internals hold up to ~ 350 HP, where the 20vt disassembles. Lighter engine, better cornering. The 20vt has better sound, but that is the only advantage. Me and my good mechanic saw too much broken 20vt, the 16vt is more endurable.
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930Tech
post 2nd November 2011 20:05
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You can also use intgrale parts on a 16vt.

I rest my case whistle.gif
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IgoRR
post 2nd November 2011 21:27
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QUOTE(930Tech @ 2nd November 2011 21:05) *
You can also use intgrale parts on a 16vt.

I rest my case whistle.gif



that was under the blanket of my phrase "greater tuning potential" coolio.gif
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GialloEvo94
post 3rd November 2011 06:36
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The 16vt is the better option in my opinion (which is biased of course biggrin.gif). As already mentioned it is easier to tune and has the added bonus of being able to change the cam belts without having to take the engine out of the car to do so. I put a post on here a while back listing why the 16vt is better for tuning (written by an experienced tuner on another forum).

A guy on one of the integrale forums recently got 350bhp from his 16vt with just an uprated head gasket, a tubular manifold, a Garrett GT series roller bearing turbo, and a live mapping session at FC Performance. The only problem with those sort of power figures though is the tendency to keep breaking the gearbox because the standard 16vt box is a known weak point if constantly being subjected to high torque. The 20vt box doesn't have the same issues AFAIK but unfortunately the 20vt box won't fit a 16vt engine.


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Bristolbilly
post 3rd November 2011 10:38
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To be honest there seems to be pro's and con's with both engines I don't like the sound of dropin the lump out when I want to change the cam belts but if I overhaul the engine and service it before it goes in this shouldn't be a problem also sound is a major factor for me it has to make the right noises also 350bhp is well above what I'm lookin for as u said gearbox plus runnin costs just don't sound great I'd be more than happy with 270-290bhp in a car that is as small as the 145 sayin that it all depends on what I can pick a donor car up for I've seen plenty of 20v's for around the 500 mark with no mot or tax but hardly any 16v's most of them are up around the 1000's-1500's and I wanted to do the swap over winter for around 1500-2000 As I am missing turbo power and throwing that at my Rs wouldn't even make a dent in the money pit it's turnt out to be. How much do u think I can get formy engine and box?? As every little helps and all that
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930Tech
post 3rd November 2011 17:21
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1.8 16v
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If your after a project, i might have just the thing for you. . . .

http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=17107
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NaanBread
post 3rd November 2011 17:59
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r u not finishing it now wayne?


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930Tech
post 3rd November 2011 18:04
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1.8 16v
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QUOTE(NaanBread @ 3rd November 2011 17:59) *
r u not finishing it now wayne?


Redundancy looms, one will have to go.

Someone could get a bargain with the yellow one. whistle.gif
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Bristolbilly
post 3rd November 2011 23:13
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QUOTE(930Tech @ 3rd November 2011 18:04) *
Redundancy looms, one will have to go.

Someone could get a bargain with the yellow one. whistle.gif


Cheers for that I'm only half way through the thread lol
what would you be lookin for price wise just out of interest?
this will be the 1st time I've ever tried somethin like this as all the work on my other car has been carried out by a mate of mine and I wanted something not to mental on the fabrication side to have a go at my self over winter
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langers
post 4th November 2011 07:11
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QUOTE(IgoRR @ 2nd November 2011 19:53) *
The 16vt has greater tuning potential, internals hold up to ~ 350 HP, where the 20vt disassembles. Lighter engine, better cornering. The 20vt has better sound, but that is the only advantage. Me and my good mechanic saw too much broken 20vt, the 16vt is more endurable.



Granted, there are alot of pro's and con's however just on this point, the 20VT's can handle this power on standard internals. Its about at its limit though.

On FCC there is a guy who has got 450hp from his standard internals and still running fine! Its all about having the fueling maps spot on.


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1 Wish
post 4th November 2011 08:25
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how much and what do you get in the package for that?
the zoe yellow project i am talking about
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Cujo
post 4th November 2011 20:32
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16vt is better to tune due to it's grale's engine that have many passed ways of tuning and appropriated spares. All in all, this is race engine while 20vt is just a turbo version of 20v.
But 20vt has little more better sound and it has hydraulic lifters instead of adjusting washers which is need to be checked every 20k km.

I would never swap 20vt into 145 if I want to increase power more than 300. But on FWD it's unpromising.
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GialloEvo94
post 5th November 2011 00:27
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QUOTE(Cujo @ 4th November 2011 20:32) *
I would never swap 20vt into 145 if I want to increase power more than 300. But on FWD it's unpromising.

Agreed. We're probably all getting a bit wrapped up in power figures here when lets face it, a FWD 145 is going to be pretty undrivable with more than 300bhp going through the front wheels.


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IgoRR
post 5th November 2011 01:00
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 5th November 2011 01:27) *
Agreed. We're probably all getting a bit wrapped up in power figures here when lets face it, a FWD 145 is going to be pretty undrivable with more than 300bhp going through the front wheels.



you can drive it whistle.gif

all you need is some good coilovers, 17'' rims and a new set of semislick tires smile.gif
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