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> Heel Toe, Do you know how?
Do you know how to Heel Toe?
Do you know how to Heel Toe?
Yes - Fluidly and Practice [ 10 ] ** [21.74%]
Yes - Fluidly dont Practice [ 3 ] ** [6.52%]
Yes - Tried [ 8 ] ** [17.39%]
Yes - Tried but not very good [ 15 ] ** [32.61%]
No - Never tried [ 6 ] ** [13.04%]
No - Dont know what your on about! [ 4 ] ** [8.70%]
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AJ
post 17th November 2005 14:25
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It's still possible to left foot break with the 147, but not with golfs biggrin.gif


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Rixio
post 17th November 2005 14:30
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Exellent Mozza!! LOL laugh.gif Very useful for those who dont know.

Lots of people reffer to Heel Toe as just for racing drivers or track etc but this is not true! It is also very usefull if needing to Emergency Brake/Hard stright line braking. As it slows the car much quicker compared to normal ram your foot on the brakes!

A Heel Toe Techique write up:

Please bear in mind this is a LHD write up but in a normal car i.e Passat 01. biggrin.gif


Heel and Toe Downshift
By Brent Romans

If you have heard of the term "heel-and-toe" downshift before, but you've never known what it means, you've come to the right place. It is the mission of this article to make you a heel-and-toe master, a proverbial Jackie Chan of downshifts. Hi-yah!

A heel-and-toe downshift refers to a specific technique used to downshift a manual transmission car. It might seem bizarre to the general populace, but racecar drivers use it all the time. Once mastered, the heel-and-toe downshift offers the benefits of reduced vehicle wear-and-tear, better driver control and faster lap times on a racetrack.

The heel-and-toe downshift is a rather complex action involving both of the driver's feet, the driver's right hand, all three vehicle pedals and the gear shift lever. The purpose of the heel-and-toe is to smoothly match engine speed to wheel speed. Here is a generalization of how a normal person downshifts a manual transmission car.

Let's say Frank is driving his '01 Volkswagen Passat around town. He is approaching a right-hand corner while in fourth gear at 50 mph. He is going too fast to make it around the corner safely, so he starts braking until he drops the Passat's speed to about 25 mph. Frank sees on the tachometer that his engine revs are dropping too low, so he pushes in the clutch as he goes around the corner. As Frank thinks about accelerating, he realizes that the Passat is still in fourth gear, which isn't suitable for strong acceleration at such slow speeds. So he moves the shifter from fourth to second gear, lets out the clutch and motors away.

The problem with Frank's technique is that when he lets out the clutch, it is not going to be a smooth shift. The Passat is going to buck a little. Why? Because when Frank goes around the corner with the clutch pushed in, the engine revs drop to idle speed. When he releases the clutch, the mechanical locking effect between the engine and the front wheels (the wheels powered by a Passat) forces the engine revs to match the rotational speed of the rear wheels. In this case, 25 mph in second gear would mean the engine has to be at roughly 2,600 rpm. When Frank lets out the clutch after moving the shifter to second gear, his car's engine must instantly go from idle to 2,600 rpm. This sudden change causes the car to buck, as well as causing undue wear-and-tear on the clutch, transmission and engine mounts.

The simple solution for Frank would be to give the car some throttle before he lets out the clutch. Specifically, he should raise the engine speed to 2,600 rpm. This way, the engine speed is equalized to the wheel speed for second gear, making the shift much smoother. For racecar drivers, however, this technique is too slow and also means that when the car is going around the corner, the clutch is pushed in, a serious no-no in a racecar.

The racer's answer is the heel-and-toe downshift. The technique combines braking and downshifting at the same time. Using our example again, if Frank used a heel-and-toe downshift, he would have downshifted while he was braking for the corner. This way, he would have had power while he was going around the corner and he could have quickly applied more throttle once he exited the corner. These are critical elements to a racecar driver, but they can also be useful to any driver on the street.

Here is a step-by-step guide on how to heel-and-toe downshift. It will explain how to shift from fourth gear to third gear, though the technique will work for any downshift.


Begin braking for the corner with your right foot. The location of the pedals and the size of your foot will dictate where you position your foot on the pedal, but most likely it should be canted a little to the right, closer to the throttle pedal.


Push in the clutch with your left foot.


This is the hard part. With your right foot still applying pressure to the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the throttle pedal. The pedal design on some cars makes this easier to do than on others. Use the outside of your right foot to blip the throttle. Blipping the throttle means temporarily raising the engine rpms to match the wheel speed. The exact amount of revs needed is dependent on a variety of factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.


Move the shifter to third gear.


Release the clutch with your left foot.
As you can see, "heel-and-toe" is a misnomer. It actually involves the ball of your foot and the side of your foot. We'll be the first to tell you that heel-and-toe downshifts aren't easy. We've found that a good way to practice is to just sit in your car in your garage and pretend you are doing a heel-and-toe downshift with the engine off. Keep repeating the steps until you are familiar with the process. Once you are ready, try it out for real. Most likely, your early attempts will be botched. Keep trying, though. Practice each step slowly and then work your way to making them all one, fluid motion. Skilled drivers can execute a heel-and-toe downshift in less than one second.

The trickiest part is getting the correct amount of rpms to match the new gear. If you blip the throttle too much, the engine has too much speed compared to the wheels and is forced to drop down to the wheel speed when you let out the clutch. If you don't blip the throttle enough, the engine rpms are forced to rise up. Either way, you know you didn't do it right as the car will jerk a little.

You'll also know it when you did it right. A proper heel-and-toe downshift is so smooth and so satisfying that, once done correctly, you'll find yourself using the technique all the time. The great thing is that you don't have to be a racecar driver or be on a racetrack to use it. Additionally, using the heel-and-toe downshift technique on the street can improve safety. In certain emergency situations, you might be required to brake heavily and then accelerate quickly. By heel-and-toe downshifting, your car will be in the best gear to achieve maximum acceleration.

So, let's recap. It's fun to do. It improves driving safety. It reduces the amount of powertrain wear on your car. Other than the amount of time it takes to learn, there is no downside. What more could you want?

This post has been edited by Rixio: 17th November 2005 14:31


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Rixio
post 17th November 2005 14:36
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And here is a Double Clutching one also one of the best and most usefull biggrin.gif

Double-clutching is the proper way to downshift at speed without placing excessive wear on the transmission's synchronizers. This allows you to select a much lower gear without the tell-tale lurch you normally get when the clutch is let out after downshifting.

When downshifting my BMW M5 from 4th gear to 2nd at 50 mph, I need to raise the engine speed from 2200 rpm to 5000. To prevent excessive synchroniser wear, the clutch is depressed and the shifter is moved to neutral. The clutch is then released, and the gas is depressed to bring the engine speed up to where it needs to be for the lower gear. The clutch is then depressed again and the shift lever moved into the lower gear. When the clutch is released the second time, the engine is already turning the proper speed . While this sounds complicated, it's easier done than said, and only takes about a second.

To better understand how the process works, a little background on transmission fundamentals will help.

A typical transmisson has two shafts, one connected to the engine through the clutch, and one connected to the rear wheels. There are usually four to six sets of gears on these shafts and they are selected with the gearshift lever inside the car. When changing gears, the clutch is depressed to disconnect the engine from the transmission so there isn't any stress on the moving parts. Since the output shaft is permanently connected to the rear wheels, the only way to match the speed of the two shafts is to use the throttle to adjust engine speed.

Once the engine is turning the right rpm, both shafts will be turning the same speed, and the gear lever will fall into gear WITHOUT using the clutch! (Although most of the time you are shifting too fast to be that accurate)

EXCERCISES

1) With the car idling in neutral, slowly step on the gas until the engine is turning 3500 rpm. Do it again bringing the rpm's up more and more quickly until you can give the pedal a quick stab and have the revs stop where you want . As you shorten the time allowed to match revs, you will notice it takes more throttle. In fast driving, you will be shifting so fast 4 will take full thottle! Now try matching revs at 4000 rpm.

2) Find a deserted road, and maintain 40 mph in 4th gear. Now shift into 3rd, and see how many rpm's the engine speed increased. At this speed, the difference won't be very much - maybe only a few hundred rpm. Go back into 4th gear. This time put the clutch in, push the lever to neutral and let the clutch back out. You are now coasting with the clutch out. Raise the engine speed to where it will be in third gear. Quickly push the clutch in, select 3rd gear, and let the clutch out. There should be no perceptible lurch if you accurately matched revs. Try the same thing at higher and higher speeds. As the road speed goes up, the speed difference between gears will go up as well. When going from 5th to 3rd a highway speeds, you may end up within 1000 rpm of redline. The easiest way of determining your maximum downshift speed is to watch the tach and speedo as you are shifting up at redline. If you shift at redline from 2nd to 3rd at 60 mph, subtract 10 mph, and that becomes your effective maximum downshift point for 2nd gear. If are within 10 mph, you are better off staying in the higher gear.

HEEL-AND-TOE DOWNSHIFTS

This combines double-clutching and braking into one event. Place your foot on the brake as far to the right as you comfortably can. While braking, roll your ankle so you can catch the left edge of the gas pedal with the right edge of your foot. If the pedals are too wide, try placing the ball of your foot on the brake, and the heel on the gas (This is where the term heel-and-toe originally came from). Now try gently slowing down and downshifting. With practice, you can brake hard and downshift in one smooth motion. This will prevent the wheels from locking when the clutch is let out in the lower gear, and you will be ready for a burst of acceleration coming out of your favorite corner!


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Loafer
post 17th November 2005 16:12
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Mozza that was a fantastic description for all of us who are more PS2 racers, than real life ones. I'd heard that the 145 is great for the old liftoff understeer malarky and already had a small idea as to what it was, but at least I'll be able to explain it to other people now.

Cheers to all the other posters on this thread, fantastic stuff, much appreciated.


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Daaaveee
post 17th November 2005 16:20
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had a little understeer - lift off oversteer moment myself the other night! was following my mate in his 306 for a little hoon around the backroads, it was a little greasy out but nothing too bad, plenty of fun but rather annoying keeping the revs low when running in... anyway, progressively tighter right hander, following my mate, notice him slide a little then his back end twitch out and back in again, thought cool that looked good and grinned, then i realise i'm doing the exact same thing, understeer, lift off, back on the throttle and countersteer, and powering away from the corner biggrin.gif it all happened so quickly, didn't have any time to think about it i just instinctively put on opposite lock and put the throttle on gently to pull me through biggrin.gif there must have been something other than just water on the road though as we wern't going particularly fast, just a steady rate. satisfying when you do it though, just a but un-nerving when you don't expect it! guarentee i'll be in the ditch one day laugh.gif

Dave

This post has been edited by Daaaveee: 17th November 2005 16:21


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Mave
post 17th November 2005 19:03
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I'm not sure about heel and toeing, but whenever I get a hire car I practice my clutchless gear changes smile.gif
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jamesgrrr
post 17th November 2005 19:07
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QUOTE(Mave @ Nov 17 2005, 07:03 PM)
I'm not sure about heel and toeing, but whenever I get a hire car I practice my clutchless gear changes smile.gif
*


laugh.gif laugh.gif you've got to take advantage of hire cars... only chance you get to really see how high a car will rev without worrying about the consequences!


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Rixio
post 17th November 2005 19:16
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QUOTE(jamesgrrr @ Nov 17 2005, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE(Mave @ Nov 17 2005, 07:03 PM)
I'm not sure about heel and toeing, but whenever I get a hire car I practice my clutchless gear changes smile.gif
*


laugh.gif laugh.gif you've got to take advantage of hire cars... only chance you get to really see how high a car will rev without worrying about the consequences!
*




Just hire one and rag the living shiiiiiiiiiiiit out of it!? Or same goes with curtasy cars!!! Im gona have one tmrw cos mines going into workshop muhahaha laugh.gif


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sweens308
post 17th November 2005 20:51
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The fastest car in the world = a hire car!

pappap.gif


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Alfaaa
post 17th November 2005 20:55
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Let's go mental, it's a rental!

Suprised people didn't know about the lift off oversteer here. The 145 is infamous for this.

It comes in very useful for those tightening corners when you can't be bothered to feed the steering wheel with your hands. One daily occurance is at about 20mph when taking a left hander around the site at work. Lefties are always special huh.gif - much rarer in this country with our clockwise roundabouts!
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Crazy Cabbage
post 17th November 2005 23:31
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*cough*

Guilty of the above, m'lud blink.gif

I can get my 146 to oversteer to the point of skidding madly, just by taking a certain corner too fast... its a sharp lefty, goin into to steady incline.

Great fun tongue.gif
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Newbie
post 18th November 2005 11:52
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The best cure for oversteer in a front wheel drive car is to hit the throttle and let physics/slip angles of driven wheels pull you out of the slide. I always found that opposite lock tended to cause a fish tail which is really frightening ohmy.gif

Shame Alfa don't do a rear wheel drive car as a power induced slide is about the best thing that you can do in a car (on your own.)

I now have a car with ESP - the thing that brakes wheels to counteract any slipping. Just as you feel the car start to slide you see the light come on and you find that you are still going in the intended direction. Makes you feel like a driving hero but in reality you are probably just an idiot going too fast biggrin.gif

This the system that I have seen Tiff Needell demonstrate and show how it is better than him at controlling the car! He reckoned that it was the best safety system since ABS and on my experience I have to agree. It even works if you hit a puddle - you don't even have to hold the wheel to stop you being pulled towards the water.
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Dave Brand
post 18th November 2005 13:50
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QUOTE(Mozza @ Nov 17 2005, 02:55 PM)
Understeer and Oversteer – Identification and Solution


Or the simple way to explain the difference:

Understeer - you go through the hedge forwards

Oversteer - you go through the hedge backwards.
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Rixio
post 18th November 2005 13:52
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QUOTE(Dave Brand @ Nov 18 2005, 01:50 PM)
QUOTE(Mozza @ Nov 17 2005, 02:55 PM)
Understeer and Oversteer – Identification and Solution


Or the simple way to explain the difference:

Understeer - you go through the hedge forwards

Oversteer - you go through the hedge backwards.
*



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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jam
post 19th November 2005 12:16
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me old fiat stradas used have a massive throttle pedal that almost rapped around the brake pedal was easy to do it on thopse motors but thew way i sit in the alfa (quite clode to the steering wheel) means i cant bend me legs right to do it nicely so i dont anymore.
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autocad
post 8th March 2006 15:59
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My Kit car had ESP, when it rained the water would come in. Then it had "Extremly slipery Pedals!" laugh.gif No problem with locking wheels there! wet a**e yes!

Heal and toe, understeer oversteer all good fun, if you learnt to drive in a MK2 escort with 145 tyres and an knackered gear box all this became necessary just to get from A to B!

The 145 over steers beautifully it just hangs on the front tyres, then as the front end starts to go and you lift off a fraction just to balance the car. It just feels a bit out of shape because of the body roll, the only problem it has are the breaks are so sharp, get it wrong and all the Mc D' wrapers end up in the foot well,

Converse are the best boots to heel and toe in!
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buellboy
post 12th November 2019 09:01
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There should be another answer option "Yes and I have no choice"

With an Alfa 75 you either do it or you say goodbye to 2nd gear within 6 months....


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dante giacosa
post 13th November 2019 09:23
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you're rocking a '75???

R E S P E C T !!!
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buellboy
post 13th November 2019 11:44
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 13th November 2019 10:23) *
you're rocking a '75???

R E S P E C T !!!


Not one...

But 3

Now I sound like paddy280bhp.....for those who know, you know smile.gif


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dante giacosa
post 14th November 2019 20:01
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 13th November 2019 11:44) *
Not one...

But 3

Now I sound like paddy280bhp.....for those who know, you know smile.gif


And for those who don't...?
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