IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

8 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> ECU Diagnostics (DIY), A Guide to Connector Locations, Hardware and Software Requirements
GialloEvo94
post 3rd January 2011 00:11
Post #1 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



As this question seems to get asked quite often, I thought it was time for an FAQ with a definitive guide of what hardware and software is required for doing DIY ECU diagnostics on the 145/146.

The 145/146 uses a 3-pin connector for all diagnostic connection points on the car and NOT a 16-pin OBD connector as found on a lot of other modern cars (including other Alfas). The locations of each of the diagnostic connectors on the 145/146 are as follows (click on the pictures for a full size view):-
  1. Engine ECU Diagnostics Connector

    Alloy top CF1 Engine
    Attached Image


    Plastic top CF2 Engine
    Attached Image


  2. Airbag ECU Diagnostics Connector

    Attached Image


  3. ABS ECU Diagnostics Connector

    Attached Image
In order to run diagnostics on any of these ECUs you will need a laptop running Microsoft Windows XP or later that has a 9-pin Serial COM port and/or a USB port on it. You will then need the following cables/leads (click on the description links to show matching items on eBay):-
  1. 1 x VAG-COM KKL 409.1 USB to 16-pin OBD or 1 x VAG-COM KKL DB9 RS232 Serial to 16-pin OBD interface lead

    Attached Image
    Attached Image


  2. 1 x Alfa 3-pin to OBD 16-pin adapter lead

    Attached Image
WARNING: Before purchasing one of the USB interface cables, be aware of the following post about FTDI chipset based cables:-
http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=23940

Once you have the required hardware, you will then need to download and install some software that is capable of talking to the ECU. The most commonly used ones are as follows (click on the software title links to visit the software vendor web sites):-
  • Multiecuscan (formerly FiatECUScan)
    This is probably the most comprehensive piece of software available and can diagnose and reset the Engine ECU, Airbag ECU and ABS ECU. It is free to use for diagnosing and resetting the Airbag ECU and ABS ECU on all 145s/146s, and is free for most of the commonly needed functions on the Engine ECU (i.e. fault code reading and resetting) for the plastic top (CF2) engine cars. However, for the alloy top (CF1) engine cars you will need to purchase a license before you can use any of the functions. A license for Multiecuscan including 1 year of updates is currently 50 Euros. The free version will only run for a maximum of 20 minutes before shutting itself down and a maximum of 4 sensors can be monitored simultaneously on the live data graph (the paid version allows a maximum of 8 sensors to be monitored simultaneously). Recalibration of any sensors also cannot be done with the free version (i.e. the Idle Actuator minimum position and the engine learning Self-Adaptive parameters) and require a paid for licensed version to do this. Note that from v2.0, Multiecuscan also has the ability to reset the TRW2 airbag ECUs. This however is only available in the paid-for version of Multiecuscan.

  • DnEcuDiag (formerly AlfaDiag)
    This can diagnose and reset the Engine ECU and Airbag ECU. The software used to run for 30 days in limited demo version mode after which a full license will needed to be purchased for 49.95 Euros if you wanted to continue running the software. However, as of 01/01/2012, AlfaDiag was made a free and open source under a CodePlex project. The author stated the following on his original website www.alfadiag.net (which is now dead): "The open source version is now the demo for the application all of the restrictions of the demo have been removed. The ecus in the demo are however limited in function, but are available for modification and extention from the codeplex site. The software is released under a reciprocal license.". It is unclear from this statement if the open source version does actually have any ECU function limitations or if it contains all ECU functions that were in previous paid-for versions before it become open source. I've not had a chance to try it out to check. You just need to go to the "DOWNLOADS" tab on the website and click on the "ClickOnce Installer" link.

  • AlfaOBD
    This can diagnose and reset the Engine ECU, Airbag ECU, ABS ECU and TRW Alarm Unit. The software can be used for free in basic form but some of the more advanced features are disabled until a full version license is paid for and the free version will only run for a maximum of 15 minutes before shutting itself down. At this time of writing, a license including free lifetime upgrades for AlfaOBD is currently 49.00 Euros.

  • Alfa TS Diag
    This can diagnose and reset the Engine ECU and Airbag ECU. The Airbag ECU functions are free to use but it will require a license to diagnose and reset the Engine ECU. Diagnosis of the Engine ECU only works with the plastic top (CF2) engine cars. This software was written by AJ (one of the owners of this forum) and the price of a license is currently listed as £11 although this it would be best to contact him for an actual up-to-date price.

  • UniDiag
    This is universal diagnostics software designed to work with any ECU that uses the KWP2000 communication protocol so it only works with the plastic top (CF2) engine cars. The software uses a "definition" file for each particular ECU so it knows what parameters/values are passed back and forth between the laptop and the ECU. This means that you have to also download and use the appropriate definition file (downloadable from HERE). UniDiag isn't as friendly or straight forward to use as FiatECUScan or AlfaDiag but no license is required so it is completely free to use.

  • KWP71Diag (written by the same author as UniDiag)
    This is universal diagnostics software designed to work with any ECU that uses the KWP71 or KWP81 communication protocols so it only works with the alloy top (CF1) engine cars. No definition files needed but again, KWP71Diag isnít as friendly or straight forward to use as FiatECUScan or AlfaDiag and the data returned is also not particularly user friendly and needs to be deciphered. However, like UniDiag, no license is required to use KWP71Diag so it is also completely free.

  • Uniscan / Euroscan / VISA
    This is universal diagnostics software that can diagnose all sorts of ECUs on a wide range of cars. However this software only runs in DOS, requires two real 16-bit serial COM ports on your laptop and also requires a specialist hardware interface device for it to work (i.e. not any of the interfaces already mentioned above). You can get cheap the interface and software on eBay for around £50-70 but it's a complete headache to set up (if you're actually successful in managing to do so) and some people report that some of the Chinese copies of the hardware doesn't work properly. Personally I would avoid this software and use one of the others above.

  • IAW Scan2
    This can diagnose and reset the Engine ECU on certain engines with an IAW ECU (this includes the 1.3 Boxer engined 145/146) and all functions are free to use including clearing error codes and testing actuators. The graphical interface is very similar to FiatECUScan / Multiecuscan so anyone who has used either of those before will immediately feel familiar with this software.

  • Trw2scan
    This is specifically for a TRW2 Airbag ECU which is found on some of the early cars and has TRW part number 60631206 printed on it's label (or 60625181 for the GTV 916 Phase 1). This model of Airbag ECU cannot be diagnosed or reset by any other DIY software available on the market. Will not work with a DB9 RS232 Serial interface cable so must be used with a USB interface cable that utilises the FTDI chipset. There is a YouTube demo of the software in use HERE. Note that Multiecuscan v2.0 and higher can now reset TRW2 airbag ECUs so there is also the option of that software as well for the TRW2 airbag ECUs.

  • Movi & Movi Pro for Mac OSX
    This is generic OBDII software that has been specifically written for the Apple Mac and can diagnose and clear fault codes on any OBDII compliant Engine ECU. It can be run in "Demo" mode indefinitely but in that mode you will only be able to see live data from the engine and whether or not any faults have been logged. You will not be able to see the actual fault codes and you will not be able to clear them. To unlock all features of the program, a full license must be purchased which costs $39.99 for Movi or $59.99 for Movi Pro.
From personal experience, the software I would recommend using for the 145/146 is Multiecuscan as it is very easy to use and supports diagnosis of the ABS ECU in addition to the Engine ECU and Airbag ECU. It also works with the largest number of Fiat/Alfa/Lancia cars of any of the software available so may be useful if you ever by another Italian car.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
xyy81t
post 3rd January 2011 00:25
Post #2 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,424
Joined: 5th November 2009
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
Member No.: 4,551
Driving: 'Zoe' 145 Cloverleaf
From: Banbury



thumbsup.gif Great write up GE.

i would also recommend Fiat ECU Scan as it is far simpler and clearer than Alfadiag.

i have not used (or needed to use) any of the other available softwares.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
cesar86
post 3rd January 2011 12:34
Post #3 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 969
Joined: 3rd September 2010
Local Time: 18th December 2018 17:26
Member No.: 5,465
Driving: Alfa Romeo 145 QV
From: Brazil



Another nice guide, GE!

That thing with the FiatECUScan and alloy-top engine ECUs is new to me, good to know!

But... Bad to know that if i want to use it, will need to spend 50,00 euros sad.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Hybrd
post 3rd January 2011 13:18
Post #4 | Print


Forum Moderator
*****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 3,209
Joined: 22nd February 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 19:26
From: under somekind of vehicle, normally an alfa
Member No.: 2,960
Driving: VW Passat, hopefully another 145 soon..........
From: Abingdon, Oxfordshire



AVOID UNISCAN!

Gio managed to get it working on our PC in the workshop, and up until the point i left we had never managed to successfuly comunicate with an ecu ar reset any lights laugh.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Francophile69
post 3rd January 2011 13:27
Post #5 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,608
Joined: 20th March 2004
Local Time: 18th December 2018 21:26
Member No.: 312
Driving: 146Ti......... the 145s better looking, big brother
From: France



Excellent work as always.

Would it be worth mentioning that the phase 1 Engine ECU diagnostic connector is in a different position to the picture shown and is in the passenger footwell?
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
buellboy
post 3rd January 2011 13:46
Post #6 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 2,436
Joined: 11th July 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: London
Member No.: 3,211
Driving: '96 145 QV (alfie) featured in C&S mag, '99 GTV 3.0 V6 Six speed Aereo (bussolina)
From: London



QUOTE(Hybrd @ 3rd January 2011 13:18) *
AVOID UNISCAN!

Gio managed to get it working on our PC in the workshop, and up until the point i left we had never managed to successfuly comunicate with an ecu ar reset any lights laugh.gif


I got it to talk to your GM rochester and the GTV but whilst it can connect, it doesn't really have many options to do anything on it!



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 3rd January 2011 17:00
Post #7 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(Steve Hill @ 3rd January 2011 13:27) *
Excellent work as always.

Would it be worth mentioning that the phase 1 Engine ECU diagnostic connector is in a different position to the picture shown and is in the passenger footwell?

On the alloy top (CF1) engine I believe the Engine ECU diagnostics connector is actually in the black box at the back left of the engine bay along with the lambda connector but I don't currently have any pictures. I'm sure there is one on the forum somewhere but I've not managed to find it yet. When I do I will add it to the original post smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Francophile69
post 3rd January 2011 20:14
Post #8 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,608
Joined: 20th March 2004
Local Time: 18th December 2018 21:26
Member No.: 312
Driving: 146Ti......... the 145s better looking, big brother
From: France



now you got me thinking....am I getting confused with the Spider I ask myself?..I'll have a look tomorrow and get back to you. I have it in my head that the ECU is in the passenger footwell under the carpet and lead comes out of it and sits behind the centre console..wherever it is I'll take a piccy unless someone already has one.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
langers
post 3rd January 2011 20:20
Post #9 | Print


Forum Moderator
******

Group: Moderator
Posts: 5,468
Joined: 14th April 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 19:26
From: Lincoln
Member No.: 3,059
Driving: Audi A3 Sportback S-Line 1.4 TFSI COD
From: Lincoln



Zee one on the left...

Attached Image


Attached Image



--------------------

'96 Purple 145 QV died from rust - '98 Blue Junior SOLD - '99 Red 145 QV 20VT SOLD - '97 145 QV Track Tart SOLD
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 3rd January 2011 20:39
Post #10 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(langers @ 3rd January 2011 20:20) *
Zee one on the left...

Thanks thumbsup.gif That's the exact picture I saw before...I'm sure you've put it in another post before to do with the lambda sensor connector. I'll also add it to the first post so all the information is in one place smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Hybrd
post 3rd January 2011 20:55
Post #11 | Print


Forum Moderator
*****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 3,209
Joined: 22nd February 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 19:26
From: under somekind of vehicle, normally an alfa
Member No.: 2,960
Driving: VW Passat, hopefully another 145 soon..........
From: Abingdon, Oxfordshire



To clear things up, Steve the connector you are thinking of is the Airbag ECU connector biggrin.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Francophile69
post 4th January 2011 10:07
Post #12 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,608
Joined: 20th March 2004
Local Time: 18th December 2018 21:26
Member No.: 312
Driving: 146Ti......... the 145s better looking, big brother
From: France



QUOTE(Hybrd @ 3rd January 2011 21:55) *
To clear things up, Steve the connector you are thinking of is the Airbag ECU connector biggrin.gif

ta for that!..unfortunately not sure I can say with any honesty that's the case....the confusion is all in my head.... blush.gif I remember now..what happened was....first time looking for it...ECU under carpet in passenger footwell..found that no probs..then spent next 30 minutes looking for lead/connector, only to eventually find it where Langar shows it to be....and her blooody Spider has it there..honest

This post has been edited by Steve Hill: 4th January 2011 10:07
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
930Tech
post 14th January 2011 16:43
Post #13 | Print


1.8 16v
******

Group: Banned Member
Posts: 4,712
Joined: 11th March 2007
Local Time: 18th December 2018 19:26
From: J28 M1
Member No.: 2,328
Driving: 145 1.8
From: Nottinghamshire



Slightly off topic gary, i notice the fiatecuscan does not work with the fiat 16vt or the lancia (not the main ECU).

Do you know of any?
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 14th January 2011 16:49
Post #14 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(E500 TAT @ 14th January 2011 16:43) *
Slightly off topic gary, i notice the fiatecuscan does not work with the fiat 16vt or the lancia (not the main ECU).

Do you know of any?

Yes. Rather than rewriting what I've already written before, have a look at my post on the evocorner forum HERE smile.gif That same software also works with the Weber Marelli IAW "P8" ECU found on the Fiat Coupe 16vt engine.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
930Tech
post 14th January 2011 18:04
Post #15 | Print


1.8 16v
******

Group: Banned Member
Posts: 4,712
Joined: 11th March 2007
Local Time: 18th December 2018 19:26
From: J28 M1
Member No.: 2,328
Driving: 145 1.8
From: Nottinghamshire



thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
buellboy
post 29th January 2011 08:55
Post #16 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 2,436
Joined: 11th July 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: London
Member No.: 3,211
Driving: '96 145 QV (alfie) featured in C&S mag, '99 GTV 3.0 V6 Six speed Aereo (bussolina)
From: London



Right, that's it! I've had it with my airbag light!

I've tried all the software in the world and it does not work, HOWEVER it seems to me that there may be some issues with the cables.

As I understand from FiatECUScan, I need to modify my cable if I want to talk to my Airbag. This is as per here:

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

It even states an example for the that for a TRW ECU I need a modified interface or an adapter cable but then sort-of contradicts itself stating that :

PLEASE NOTE: For the old (non-EOBD) vehicles with 3-pin diagnostic connector you need UNMODIFIED interface with 3-pin adapter.

WHAT?

So do I need to modify my cable or not? Furthermore their diagrams are confusing as I'm not gonna get an adapter cable (at £18 for 3....) and swap it everytime I need to connect to the ECU or Airbag or ABS.

I understand that most of the 9 pins on the Serial cable do nothing. We are only using the ground,k-line,l-line, power andsome other cable.

SOOO my plan is to make a custom cable using banana plugs.

For this I need a diagram of OBD-to 3 pin fiat with the name of the lines. I've searched the net but I cannot find any info!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 29th January 2011 09:28
Post #17 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



No, you don't need to modify any of the interface cables. Just use the 16-pin OBD cable in conjunction with the 16-pin to 3-pin adapter cable and that is it. No need to mess with any pin rewiring in the 16-pin connector. That is only needed for cars that have a full 16-pin socket on the car (i.e. they don't have the 3-pin socket like we do on the 145/146) and where you plug the 16-pin connector directly into the car without the 3-pin to 16-pin adapter.

I used FiatECUScan to successfully reset my airbag light a few months ago using the vanilla (unmodified) interface cables shown in the first post of this thread.

Can you not actually get FiatECUScan to initialise communication with your airbag ECU at all, or does it initialise comms but is then just not able to clear the logged fault codes?

If it's the first symptom then you either have a bad connection to the airbag ECU (try re-seating the plugs to it) or you have a faulty airbag ECU and will need to get a replacement one.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
xyy81t
post 29th January 2011 09:32
Post #18 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,424
Joined: 5th November 2009
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
Member No.: 4,551
Driving: 'Zoe' 145 Cloverleaf
From: Banbury



mine works fine on the air bag ecu with unmodified cables and fiat ECU scan. so unless there are different ecus requireing different cables? dunno.gif

can you not conenct to the airbag ecu at all?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
buellboy
post 29th January 2011 10:11
Post #19 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 2,436
Joined: 11th July 2008
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: London
Member No.: 3,211
Driving: '96 145 QV (alfie) featured in C&S mag, '99 GTV 3.0 V6 Six speed Aereo (bussolina)
From: London



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 29th January 2011 09:28) *
I used FiatECUScan to successfully reset my airbag light a few months ago using the vanilla (unmodified) interface cables shown in the first post of this thread.
Can you not actually get FiatECUScan to initialise communication with your airbag ECU at all, or does it initialise comms but is then just not able to clear the logged fault codes?


Vanilla...interesting...do you work in finance GE?

I can't talk to the ECU at all, it does not communicate with it. The only reason the light came on is because when I went to swap in my steering wheel, I was inpatient and did not wait the full 30 minutes. This was almost 2 years ago! Ever since then I tried with all sorts of systems to re-set the airbag to no avail.

Uniscan 1.83 was the only thing that managed to connect to the ecu but then complained about "Low power" to the unit.

Do you know if the airbag units are matched? Also on fiatecuscan it states that my system is a TRW (2F), I suspect 2F stands for two front airbags. However my car only has 1 airbag...i wonder if that is causing the problem!

I have tried many times to clean the contacts and re-seat the connector but as I say, it was only a steering wheel swap!



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 29th January 2011 11:10
Post #20 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th December 2018 20:26
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



Yep, good guess biggrin.gif I do work in finance (in the IT sector).

Ignoring the Becker airbag system which is only found on the really early cars, there are 2 other systems in use on these cars - the TRW M.Y.97 and the TRW M.Y.99. The latter of the two simply just extends fuctionality to include side airbags. Both systems utilise the same communications protocol and both are supported by FiatECUScan. If yours doesn't have side airbags then you will have the M.Y.97 system.

It sounds like the comms circuitry on yours has died which is preventing you doing any diagnostics.

To rule out any issues with your laptop, OS, or interface cables it would be worth trying to connect them to another 145/146 to test them if you have that option available.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post

8 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18 Dec 2018 19:26