IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 2.0ltr Cams In My 1.6 Head, Its going......!!!!
black 146
post 16th October 2012 12:50
Post #41 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 16th October 2012 13:30) *
Ok, so the temp gauge is actually pretty good, gets to around 90 and sticks there, as soon as it starts going up the fan cuts in and with in about 15 seconds its back to 90 again. Just took the top hose off Fin as suggested and there is a flow of coolant, so I guess the pump is OK. Just very nervous about it at the moment following the double failure....I'll keep my eye on it and report back if anything else is a miss. The air temp from the heater is getting ever so slightly warmer, its definatley not as hot as before but maybe it will improve with time, it better with winter just around the corner. As for the engine performance with the new CAMS in place, yeah not has good as with the 1800 head but i certainly can feel a difference...wants to be rev'ed though as pretty gutless under 2500 rpm...... Thanks again guys





did you try to keep pumping the the bottom hose to see if that was getting as the top one is
do you know how much anti freeze went in


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 17th October 2012 15:07
Post #42 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



Right, taken advice from Fin....new Thermostat ordered from Shop4Parts..heater still not getting very warm..slightly concernd also that the temp is quite regularly going above 90 on a run, not hammering, constant 80mph and every 5 mins the needle started edging up....


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 17th October 2012 16:41
Post #43 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 17th October 2012 16:07) *
Right, taken advice from Fin....new Thermostat ordered from Shop4Parts..heater still not getting very warm..slightly concernd also that the temp is quite regularly going above 90 on a run, not hammering, constant 80mph and every 5 mins the needle started edging up....





is the top hose from the rad as hot as the bottom one as i said i had the same problem getting up to speed whistle.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 18th October 2012 10:26
Post #44 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



QUOTE(black 146 @ 17th October 2012 17:41) *
is the top hose from the rad as hot as the bottom one as i said i had the same problem getting up to speed whistle.gif


Sorry Black146, no it's not, it's getting quite hot but not near as hot as the top hose.............suspect thermostat???

This post has been edited by stevepx: 18th October 2012 10:26


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 18th October 2012 16:14
Post #45 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 18th October 2012 11:26) *
Sorry Black146, no it's not, it's getting quite hot but not near as hot as the top hose.............suspect thermostat???






i thought that !. but i put two in from car with out a problem
that's why it went down to clearing that small air lock out


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Smallville
post 18th October 2012 16:22
Post #46 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,783
Joined: 1st November 2010
Local Time: 18th September 2019 16:21
From: Rayleigh
Member No.: 5,655
Driving: Alfa 147GTA & Alfa 155
From: Rayleigh, Essex



QUOTE(stevepx @ 15th October 2012 13:43) *
So the saga continues!!

Have got my '46 back, its now running the original 1600 head which has been welded to make good but I now have the 1800/2000 cams in place (like Kirk) but ANOTHER problem seems to have manifested itself.. Only got it Saturday but there seems to be pretty much no hot air coming in through the heater vents, just a little warm so I drained down the coolant system and refilled it to make sure there wasn't any air trapped and still no good I changed the valve a few months ago so I know it's good..I also noticed that taking the cap off the header tank didn't result in the water bubbling all over the place leading me to believe that the water pump is now FUBAR..would I be correct with my assumption and how damaging is it to drive in this state?? GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!


Sounds like a problem with your thermostat, as my QV wouldn't blow hot air out so changed the stat and sorted smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 18th October 2012 17:52
Post #47 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



Ok, well New stat on its way, will be really careful to make sure I get any and all air out of the system...
Hopefully this will be the last thing I need to do for a while....thanks guys for all your input and suggestions...


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Fin
post 19th October 2012 02:06
Post #48 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 928
Joined: 25th March 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Up North
Member No.: 4,027
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Merc E300TD, Opel Omega GSi
From: J28 off of the M1



QUOTE(stevepx @ 18th October 2012 18:52) *
Ok, well New stat on its way, will be really careful to make sure I get any and all air out of the system...
Hopefully this will be the last thing I need to do for a while....thanks guys for all your input and suggestions...

I'm really hoping it is the thermostat, usually a nice easy 3 part to change, sadly a bit more expensive on these engines! Seeing as it is a weak point, a stupid two-stage affair and your particular one has been subjected to overheating, a replacement should hopefully sort it all out!

As for air in of the system, get the header tank to the correct level, run the engine until it gets hot then top it up. You shouldn't really have to bleed it anywhere although on some radiators there is a bleed screw on the side near the tank.


--------------------
Keep left unless overtaking - Use mirrors and signals when changing lanes - Keep within the white lines - Don't tailgate

Its not exactly f**king rocket science is it?


If you cut a horse in half, then bang the two halves together, you get exactly the same noise as someone riding a coconut!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 23rd October 2012 17:09
Post #49 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



f**king thing did it again!!! Changed the thermostat for a brand new item, careful to fill the system up with coolant and let it all run up to temperature, everything seemed fine, even getting more hot air through the vents, and today on the M25 of all places having driven steady for 80 miles the temp gauge went from 90 to 130 in about 10 seconds.....I pulled over immediately and called the AA...after getting home found that the water level has only gone down a little and can see any signs of water in the engine (although that might appear later) started it up, it's a bit lumpy but nothing too bad...I'm going to run it up tomorrow and leave it ticking over for an hour or so to see if anything happens....I'm at a loss, the head is fine, the block is fine, new thermostat.....what else is there!!!!??? sad.gif sad.gif

This post has been edited by stevepx: 23rd October 2012 17:10


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 23rd October 2012 17:35
Post #50 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 23rd October 2012 18:09) *
f**king thing did it again!!! Changed the thermostat for a brand new item, careful to fill the system up with coolant and let it all run up to temperature, everything seemed fine, even getting more hot air through the vents, and today on the M25 of all places having driven steady for 80 miles the temp gauge went from 90 to 130 in about 10 seconds.....I pulled over immediately and called the AA...after getting home found that the water level has only gone down a little and can see any signs of water in the engine (although that might appear later) started it up, it's a bit lumpy but nothing too bad...I'm going to run it up tomorrow and leave it ticking over for an hour or so to see if anything happens....I'm at a loss, the head is fine, the block is fine, new thermostat.....what else is there!!!!??? sad.gif sad.gif





i know i keep going on but what's the temp on the hoses and how are you bleeding it
have you clear the rad out ? or i would to to stick a rad flush in i done some cars where i run it till hot then leave it over night then get it to temp before you empty it

This post has been edited by black 146: 23rd October 2012 17:37


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 23rd October 2012 18:19
Post #51 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



QUOTE(black 146 @ 23rd October 2012 18:35) *
i know i keep going on but what's the temp on the hoses and how are you bleeding it
have you clear the rad out ? or i would to to stick a rad flush in i done some cars where i run it till hot then leave it over night then get it to temp before you empty it



Bottom hose came up to temp..
Not sure what you mean about bleeding it, there are no bleed points in the coolant system so filling it with coolant, running the temp up until the stat opens with the heater turned on hot...then topping it off..

not tried rad flush, i'll get some tomorrow,

Could be a block in a hose that moves and then blocks again, thats all i can think off..


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Cloverleaf76
post 23rd October 2012 18:59
Post #52 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,194
Joined: 29th February 2008
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
Member No.: 2,973
Driving: Alfa 145 Cloverleaf, Alfa 147
From: M25 J11



QUOTE(stevepx @ 23rd October 2012 18:09) *
f**king thing did it again!!! Changed the thermostat for a brand new item, careful to fill the system up with coolant and let it all run up to temperature, everything seemed fine, even getting more hot air through the vents, and today on the M25 of all places having driven steady for 80 miles the temp gauge went from 90 to 130 in about 10 seconds.....I pulled over immediately and called the AA...after getting home found that the water level has only gone down a little and can see any signs of water in the engine (although that might appear later) started it up, it's a bit lumpy but nothing too bad...I'm going to run it up tomorrow and leave it ticking over for an hour or so to see if anything happens....I'm at a loss, the head is fine, the block is fine, new thermostat.....what else is there!!!!??? sad.gif sad.gif


If it had water in it, the temp was not 130.

My guess is that if it happened v quickly, ie just suddenly went from 90 to 130 it is a misreading. All my gauges went wacky for a while and it turned out to be the earth in the engine bay nearest the horn / aircon compressor etc.

Do you have access to alfadiag / fes etc? You could check the true reading versus what's displayed and try messing about with that earth (which is incidentally fragile: 20 plus .5mm cables onto one connector = failures).

Did the expansion cap even blow? Assuming that works, and it really is quite unlikely to break, it should blow at 1.4 bar. One of the engineers on here unsure.gif will do the maths and tell you what indicated temp that should happen at with a standard antifreeze mix, but it is certainly well below 130.


Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 23rd October 2012 19:00
Post #53 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 23rd October 2012 19:19) *
Bottom hose came up to temp..
Not sure what you mean about bleeding it, there are no bleed points in the coolant system so filling it with coolant, running the temp up until the stat opens with the heater turned on hot...then topping it off..

not tried rad flush, i'll get some tomorrow,

Could be a block in a hose that moves and then blocks again, thats all i can think off..




i was thinking in the rad maybe ?
do you take the cap off the header tank when the fan kicks in ? and on the newer rad's have a bleed screw on the o/s


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Cloverleaf76
post 23rd October 2012 19:32
Post #54 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,194
Joined: 29th February 2008
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
Member No.: 2,973
Driving: Alfa 145 Cloverleaf, Alfa 147
From: M25 J11



QUOTE(Cloverleaf76 @ 23rd October 2012 19:59) *
If it had water in it, the temp was not 130.

Did the expansion cap even blow? Assuming that works, and it really is quite unlikely to break, it should blow at 1.4 bar. One of the engineers on here unsure.gif will do the maths and tell you what indicated temp that should happen at with a standard antifreeze mix, but it is certainly well below 130.


www.engineeringtoolbox.com says that at 1.4 bar water boils at 109.32 celsius.

For a 50/50 ethylene glycol mix the same site lists the 1 bar boiling point at 107.2 celsius.

Assuming (probably wrongly!) a linear response of antifreeze siolution to pressure, the boiling point of 109.32 multiplied by a factor of 1.072 would indicate that a 50/50 antifreeze mix at 1.4 bar would boil off, popping the cap, at 117.2 degrees.

And from bitter experience it makes a BIG mess, dumping approx 40percent of the coolant all over your engine bay.



Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 23rd October 2012 20:24
Post #55 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



I'm with Mr '76 on this one in thinking you may have a faulty gauge or temp sensor. Get Multiecuscan (FES) hooked up to it ASAP and get a real reading from the ECU. Kirk had a similar issue a while back with a faulty sensor or gauge (I forget which).

I forget - does yours have a plastic or alloy top engine?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 24th October 2012 01:05
Post #56 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 23rd October 2012 21:24) *
I'm with Mr '76 on this one in thinking you may have a faulty gauge or temp sensor. Get Multiecuscan (FES) hooked up to it ASAP and get a real reading from the ECU. Kirk had a similar issue a while back with a faulty sensor or gauge (I forget which).

I forget - does yours have a plastic or alloy top engine?



thanks guys......there were whisps of steam coming from under the bonnet and water had leaked out from somewhere around the expansion tank..

GE its a plastic top.....

'76 I dont have Fiatscan so can't check unfortunately...

i'll check the plug/earth as suggested and order another temp sensor...

thanks guys again........ worshippy.gif


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Fin
post 24th October 2012 11:53
Post #57 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 928
Joined: 25th March 2009
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Up North
Member No.: 4,027
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Merc E300TD, Opel Omega GSi
From: J28 off of the M1



QUOTE(stevepx @ 23rd October 2012 18:09) *
I'm at a loss, the head is fine, the block is fine, new thermostat.....what else is there!!!!??? sad.gif sad.gif

Balls... This does not sound good, although I'd start at the top and work your way down, particularly as you also say:
QUOTE(stevepx)
there were whisps of steam coming from under the bonnet and water had leaked out from somewhere around the expansion tank

I'd do a compression test on the new head for starters. You say it started OK but was running a bit lumpy after you got back home, and it also drove problem free for 80 miles before it suddenly started overheating. After that (if it passes the comp test) go round the engine and check every single hose and clip. If any are even slightly suspect, replace them and make sure they aren't over tightened. Also check the pipes (rubber and metal parts) for any cracks and/or damage and the expansion tank itself as previous overheating could have damaged that. Look for any signs of coolant leaking anywhere. Blue is fairly easy to spot with a good torch as it dries as a white/blueish powder, red is easier as it stays red though!

Let me know if you want to borrow a compression tester!


--------------------
Keep left unless overtaking - Use mirrors and signals when changing lanes - Keep within the white lines - Don't tailgate

Its not exactly f**king rocket science is it?


If you cut a horse in half, then bang the two halves together, you get exactly the same noise as someone riding a coconut!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 24th October 2012 13:18
Post #58 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



OK heres an update...

Bottom hose is now not getting hot...Black146 I have tried pumping/squeezing the bottom hose but to no avail..(did it for about 10 minutes with the cap off)

It was running quite nicely this morning, not lump any more.. Stationary temp gets upto 90, stays for a while then starts to slowly climb, fan kicks in and remains on, temp gets upto about halfway between 90 & 130 and kinda sits there....did all this with the expansion cap off, water was steaming a little but not boiling....Have checked as many of the hoses/pipes I can get to and all seem in good order....still no heat in the car and the hose coming off the back of the thermostat at the top isn't very hot...is maybe the new stat faulty perhaps..??? I'm going to get some radiator flush and give that a go just to be sure...

Fin, thanks for all the advice....I've been on the phone to my mechanic who is at a loss too..I've also taken both top and bottom hose off and poured water into the top hose and it flowed through the rad and out of the bottom hose no problem. .I know the pump is mechanical but I'm still feeling that perhaps this might be a problem? Anyway i'll flush the cooling system and see if that makes an difference............


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 24th October 2012 14:45
Post #59 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



With the expansion tank cap off, the system won't be pressurised so the water will boil at 100 degrees instead of at a higher temperature. If your gauge was reading over that (sounds like it was saying ~110 degrees) and the water wasn't showing any signs of boiling then it suggests a faulty gauge or sensor to me. Do you have a thermometer you can stick in the expansion tank?

If you put your hand on the top hose of the radiator while someone revs the engine you should feel/hear water movement through the hose. Is this happening?

Aside from a failed water pump which is a possility, I'm also wondering if you have a blockage somewhere that is preventing a decent flow of water. I would certainly check for a radiator blockage by shoving a hose pipe in the top water feed and seeing if water flows freely from the bottom feed pipe.

These are a few more things for you to try at least.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Cloverleaf76
post 24th October 2012 16:29
Post #60 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,194
Joined: 29th February 2008
Local Time: 18th September 2019 17:21
Member No.: 2,973
Driving: Alfa 145 Cloverleaf, Alfa 147
From: M25 J11



Can I ask what should have been my first question: does the fan kick in at any point???

This post has been edited by Cloverleaf76: 24th October 2012 16:30
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18 Sep 2019 16:21