IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> QV won't start, no fuel, no spark
zanetti
post 16th March 2017 16:19
Post #1 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



Hi everyone,

I'm posting here because I'm completely stumped.

My 1996 QV alloy top (motronic 2.10.4)refuses to start, the engine cranks just fine but will not start.

Turn the key and the injector light goes, code light goes out - looks fine but there is seemingly no injector/coil pulse being sent from the ecu. There is fuel going to the fuel rail, if I manually operate the injectors they squirt fuel, I have checked almost every pin on the ecu and the grounds are all fine and the 12v supply is fine.

I have rewired the bbob and all connections seems to be working fine. I have replaced the crank sensor even though the original one was within spec.

I tested the injector voltage and it is sitting at 6 volts? I tested the primary coil voltage and that is 10.9 volts. If I test the supply line on the injector and ground it to the battery then I get 12.5 volts, same with the coil primary feed. My thought is that there is a bad earth but I have checked and tested all of the earth points that I could find relating to the ecu and that are all fine!

What am I missing here??? Does anyone know what S42 supplies? According the manual it supplies A8 (coils) but then further in the manual it says that S41 (main relay) supplies the coils?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated and I've tried everything I can think of!!!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 16th March 2017 23:21
Post #2 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



First question - if you look near the battery, does it look like you actually have relay S42 on your car? And are you sure you have an M2.10.4 ECU and not the M2.10.3?

AFAIK the S42 relay was only present for the M2.10.3 ECU's where that relay supplied +12v to the spark plug coils while relay S41 supplied +12v to the injectors. On the M2.10.4 they rationalised that setup and just used a single relay (S41) to supply +12v to both the spark plug coils and the injectors.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 17th March 2017 05:26
Post #3 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



So here is the thing, yes, there appears to be an S42 relay, I have 4 relays in the front, Main, Fuel, Variator and Secondary (S42) I believe, the M2.10.4 maunal speaks of S42 supplying the coils, however removing this relay has no impact on anything at all so I agree that S41 must supply both Coils and Injectors. Yes, I definitely have the M2.10.4 ECU based on both a part number search of the ECU and the relay wired colours, the M2.10.3 is quite different.

I have also confirmed that all ECU pins terminate where they should, such as grounds and +12V - all of the ECU's ground points are at G60 (in the engine bay, below and just forward of the battery tray.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 19th March 2017 16:37
Post #4 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



Basically put, there is no earth pulse from the ECU to trigger either the coils or injectors. The earth pins on the ECU are fine.

The crank sensor has been replaced although the previous one was a Bosch 0261210129 which had 860ohm when tested and that is correct to spec. If I measure it using ac volts I get 3.3v on cranking. To me that says it's working... thoughts?

I believe that is the only sensor that would prevent the injectors and coils from working.

Is it possible that there is an immobiliser issue even though my code light goes out? I assume that would have the same effect?
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 19th March 2017 18:31
Post #5 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



Do you have an diagnostic cable and software at all? That will help you find out if the immobiliser is still enabled in some way and is preventing the ECU from allowing the car to start, or if any of the engine sensors are showing any fault codes.

If you don't have a cable or software then see the following post which details what you need...

http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=18638


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Ganz
post 19th March 2017 20:56
Post #6 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 734
Joined: 2nd November 2012
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: East Mids
Member No.: 10,640
Driving: 145 Cloverleaf 2.0L ts
From: uk



Hi Zanetti

I had a similar problem a few years ago. It turned out to be a relay in the BBoB as documented in my thread:
O Yay! O Yay! 145 Got Towed Tonight! (here is my link to the http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtop...61&hl=ganz). My immobiliser light came on and it would not start. Might be worth a read.

G A N Z


--------------------
G A N Z 145

Instagram
ganz145_alfa
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 20th March 2017 07:39
Post #7 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 19th March 2017 20:31) *
Do you have an diagnostic cable and software at all? That will help you find out if the immobiliser is still enabled in some way and is preventing the ECU from allowing the car to start, or if any of the engine sensors are showing any fault codes.

If you don't have a cable or software then see the following post which details what you need...

http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=18638


Yes, I have a the blue 16 pin to usb bacle with the ftdi chip and it appears that the chip is original and not fake, I also just purchased the 16 to 3 pin adapter so I will be giving that a go tomorrow. I previously tried to connect to the ECU but had issues, simply no connection, that was prior to having the 3 pin adapter, I ran singles wires from the pins on the usb cable to the 3 pin on the car, hopefully I'll somehow get it to work this time.

The cable that I have though refuses to work on my 147 2.0 but worked fine on my 147 GTA? Weird, same with my ELM327 bluetooth adapter!

KW71diag I assume is the only piece of software that will work for my M2.10.4 ECU?

I'll post an update as soon as I have an update.

QUOTE(Ganz @ 19th March 2017 22:56) *
Hi Zanetti

I had a similar problem a few years ago. It turned out to be a relay in the BBoB as documented in my thread:
O Yay! O Yay! 145 Got Towed Tonight! (here is my link to the http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtop...61&hl=ganz). My immobiliser light came on and it would not start. Might be worth a read.

G A N Z


Thanks Ganz, that made for a very interesting read, I don't seem to have an abnormal current draw and all of my relays are working although I will definitely replace them. I have also completely rewired my bbob as a matter of course.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 20th March 2017 18:33
Post #8 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(zanetti @ 20th March 2017 07:39) *
KW71diag I assume is the only piece of software that will work for my M2.10.4 ECU?

Multiecuscan works, although only the paid-for version on the M2.10.x ECUs.

More user-friendly alternatives to KW71diag that will work with the M2.10.x ECUs is AlfaOBD (free version has a time limited connection period of 15 minutes) and DnEcuDiag (completely free).


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 21st March 2017 18:07
Post #9 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 20th March 2017 20:33) *
Multiecuscan works, although only the paid-for version on the M2.10.x ECUs.

More user-friendly alternatives to KW71diag that will work with the M2.10.x ECUs is AlfaOBD (free version has a time limited connection period of 15 minutes) and DnEcuDiag (completely free).


Thanks GE, I tried KW71diag, AlfaOBD and DnEcuDiag all of which gave my an init timeout when connecting to the ECU, I tried multiple settings, including setting the latency to 1 in the com port setup. I'm connecting using a Windows 7 Pro x64 laptop. I tried different FTDI drivers from the older 2.0.x to the latest 2.10.x - no difference. I'm guessing my cable may be dodgy as I tried connecting to the ABS ECU as well without success. The cable is new though.

I will try to get a different cable can you suggest an alternate guaranteed-to-work cable? I did read your ECU and Cable articles and tried various solutions therein but no go.

The weird this is that I'm not getting an injector light or CODE light, the CODE light goes out almost immediately once the ignition is on and the injector and airbag lights take about 2/3 seconds to go out.

Something I did find though, while testing the relay cables in the bbob I found that with the ECU and main relay disconnected, that the red/white cable on the main relay base (pin 87) what going to ground, this is the power line that supplies the injectors and coils etc... I progressively disconnected every sensor and when connecting the lambda the continuity stopped and my multimeter read 1780ohms - possibly something else causing this?

Also as a test, with the ECU disconnected, I went along with the M2.10.4 workshop manual troubleshooting procedure. Testing pin 36 and pin 37, it says that with the key turned there should be low (0v) on pin 36 and 12v on pin 37. When I turn the key to MAR, I get 12v at pin 36 and nothing at pin 37? Weird, I can only assume that the ECU passes a ground signal to pin 36 thereby engaging the main relay and thereby applying 12v to pin 37 in the relay. If I ground my multimeter and probe both the coils and injectors I get 12 volts - as I mentioned, it's just the negative pulse from the ECU that I am missing and it's becoming more and more frustrating as everything looks good!

Just to confirm, the fuel pump relay is working as the fuel pump primes the fuel system when the ignition is switched on.

Is there anything in G1 - the main fusebox to the right of the steering column that could this type of problem? I can't see anything in the wiring diagrams to show a connection between G1 and the main engine systems apart from the 12v key-operated supply...?
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 22nd March 2017 07:37
Post #10 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(zanetti @ 21st March 2017 18:07) *
I will try to get a different cable can you suggest an alternate guaranteed-to-work cable? I did read your ECU and Cable articles and tried various solutions therein but no go.

It's been a good number of years since I got my last one so unfortunately I can't really point you in the direction of any particular supplier. It's going to have to be pot luck I'm afraid unless anyone else has a recommendation.

QUOTE

The weird this is that I'm not getting an injector light or CODE light, the CODE light goes out almost immediately once the ignition is on and the injector and airbag lights take about 2/3 seconds to go out.
This does actually suggest/indocate that the CODE immobiliser is giving the engine ECU the required "allow engine to start" command. The way to double-check this is to temporarily unplug the transponder pick-up coil from the yellow CODE immobiliser ECU (see the pictures in this post). This will prevent the signal from the transponder in the key from being detected and I would then expect the CODE light to remain on because of the lack of presence of a valid transponder chip. At least doing this would then tell you if the CODE immobiliser system is behaving as expected with and without the detection of a valid transponder.

QUOTE

Something I did find though, while testing the relay cables in the bbob I found that with the ECU and main relay disconnected, that the red/white cable on the main relay base (pin 87) what going to ground, this is the power line that supplies the injectors and coils etc... I progressively disconnected every sensor and when connecting the lambda the continuity stopped and my multimeter read 1780ohms - possibly something else causing this?

This is correct. If you study the wiring diagram you will see that with everything else disconnected except the lambda, the only route for current to flow from pin 87 in the relay connector to ground is through the heating element of the lambda (into pin 2 of the lambda, through the resistive heating element, then out through pin 1 to ground).

QUOTE

Also as a test, with the ECU disconnected, I went along with the M2.10.4 workshop manual troubleshooting procedure. Testing pin 36 and pin 37, it says that with the key turned there should be low (0v) on pin 36 and 12v on pin 37. When I turn the key to MAR, I get 12v at pin 36 and nothing at pin 37? Weird, I can only assume that the ECU passes a ground signal to pin 36 thereby engaging the main relay and thereby applying 12v to pin 37 in the relay.
This is correct if you are testing the pins in the ECU connector while it is disconnected from the ECU and the while the relays are still connected. Pin 36 from the ECU connector goes through the coil in relay S41 then out through a fuse in fusebox G1 to the +12v terminal on the battery. Thus you will see +12v on pin 36 in the connector. Pin 37 of the ECU connector goes to pin 87 of relay S41 which is in a "normally open" position when the relay is not energised so it will be open circuit, thus why you are seeing nothing on pin 36 of the ECU connector. The description in the workshop manual is for voltages you would see on the pins of the ECU itself when it is powered up (not on the pins of a disconnected ECU plug).

QUOTE

Is there anything in G1 - the main fusebox to the right of the steering column that could this type of problem? I can't see anything in the wiring diagrams to show a connection between G1 and the main engine systems apart from the 12v key-operated supply...?

I don't think so but you said you checked all the +12v voltages at the relevant ECU pins and sensors and said everything seems to check out OK.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 22nd March 2017 09:12
Post #11 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 22nd March 2017 09:37) *
It's been a good number of years since I got my last one so unfortunately I can't really point you in the direction of any particular supplier. It's going to have to be pot luck I'm afraid unless anyone else has a recommendation.

This does actually suggest/indocate that the CODE immobiliser is giving the engine ECU the required "allow engine to start" command. The way to double-check this is to temporarily unplug the transponder pick-up coil from the yellow CODE immobiliser ECU (see the pictures in this post). This will prevent the signal from the transponder in the key from being detected and I would then expect the CODE light to remain on because of the lack of presence of a valid transponder chip. At least doing this would then tell you if the CODE immobiliser system is behaving as expected with and without the detection of a valid transponder.
This is correct. If you study the wiring diagram you will see that with everything else disconnected except the lambda, the only route for current to flow from pin 87 in the relay connector to ground is through the heating element of the lambda (into pin 2 of the lambda, through the resistive heating element, then out through pin 1 to ground).

This is correct if you are testing the pins in the ECU connector while it is disconnected from the ECU and the while the relays are still connected. Pin 36 from the ECU connector goes through the coil in relay S41 then out through a fuse in fusebox G1 to the +12v terminal on the battery. Thus you will see +12v on pin 36 in the connector. Pin 37 of the ECU connector goes to pin 87 of relay S41 which is in a "normally open" position when the relay is not energised so it will be open circuit, thus why you are seeing nothing on pin 36 of the ECU connector. The description in the workshop manual is for voltages you would see on the pins of the ECU itself when it is powered up (not on the pins of a disconnected ECU plug).
I don't think so but you said you checked all the +12v voltages at the relevant ECU pins and sensors and said everything seems to check out OK.


Thanks GE for clearing this up for me, I just think I'm looking for something that isn't there because this makes no sense at all. In terms of of the CODE unit, the CODE light stays on if the ECU is unplugged and the ignition turned on. I assumed this was a good indication that the CODE unit is working correctly.

I found this post: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engines-ts-...-fuel-help.html

I have checked all the ground point I can find and they all appear fine but perhaps I need to go over this again.

In terms of the cable I'm going to try a desktop board and screen in my garage later, perhaps that will work, with XP x86 - will post an update.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 22nd March 2017 15:11
Post #12 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(zanetti @ 22nd March 2017 09:12) *
In terms of of the CODE unit, the CODE light stays on if the ECU is unplugged and the ignition turned on. I assumed this was a good indication that the CODE unit is working correctly.

Yes, I think from this you can be reasonably confident that the CODE system is working OK and is de-immobilising the engine.

The CODE immobiliser ECU reads a code from the transponder chip in the key and if it is a valid and recognised code, it then passes another code on to the engine ECU (this is a code that "pairs" the CODE immobiliser ECU with the engine ECU). If the code sent by the CODE immobiliser ECU matches one that is stored in the engine ECU, then the engine ECU sends a response back to the CODE immobiliser ECU indicating that everything is "OK" which in turn results in the yellow CODE light in the instrument cluster being extinguished and the ECU then being granted access to start the engine. If the CODE immobiliser ECU doesn't receive an "OK" message from the engine ECU then the yellow CODE light in the instrument cluster will remain illuminated and the engine ECU will not be permitted to start the engine.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 27th March 2017 07:38
Post #13 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



I've redone the main earth G60 again... no different apart from now if I use my multimeter grounded on the head and test one side of the injector I get 6v and the other 12v... ?

I also just checked that I'm getting a voltage at Pin 48 and 49 from the crank sensor at the ECU connector, I'm getting a varied a.c. voltage of between 3.8 and 4.2 volts obviously at cranking speed, does this sound right? I thought around 2v was average at cranking? It is a new sensor.

I opened the ECU, thought maybe cold solder joints or some damage but it looks perfect, shiny joints and not a spec of dust anywhere.

This post has been edited by zanetti: 27th March 2017 16:47
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Ganz
post 27th March 2017 23:10
Post #14 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 734
Joined: 2nd November 2012
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: East Mids
Member No.: 10,640
Driving: 145 Cloverleaf 2.0L ts
From: uk



QUOTE(zanetti @ 16th March 2017 17:19) *
Hi everyone,

I'm posting here because I'm completely stumped.

My 1996 QV alloy top (motronic 2.10.4)refuses to start, the engine cranks just fine but will not start.

Turn the key and the injector light goes, code light goes out - looks fine but there is seemingly no injector/coil pulse being sent from the ecu. There is fuel going to the fuel rail, if I manually operate the injectors they squirt fuel, I have checked almost every pin on the ecu and the grounds are all fine and the 12v supply is fine.

I have rewired the bbob and all connections seems to be working fine. I have replaced the crank sensor even though the original one was within spec.

I tested the injector voltage and it is sitting at 6 volts? I tested the primary coil voltage and that is 10.9 volts. If I test the supply line on the injector and ground it to the battery then I get 12.5 volts, same with the coil primary feed. My thought is that there is a bad earth but I have checked and tested all of the earth points that I could find relating to the ecu and that are all fine!

What am I missing here??? Does anyone know what S42 supplies? According the manual it supplies A8 (coils) but then further in the manual it says that S41 (main relay) supplies the coils?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated and I've tried everything I can think of!!!


S42 relay.
Been a while since my BBoB O Yay experience. S42 is the key operated supply relay: this supplies live feed to circuits when the key is in and turned in the drive (on) position. This provides supply to side lights, sunroof and a shed load of circuits that would not get a supply of electricity). This is as opposed to circuits that are always 'ON' like the rear boot push button on the centre console. This relay is very important as it also supplies the feed to the control unit (Montronic ECU) through pin 27 (on the ECU) and also provides the supply to the primary windings of the coils.

S42 relay: pin 30 (pin numbered 30 on the relay) is connected to S36 the large fuse in your engine bay near the front suspension strut. With ignition key turned , check for 12V at pin 85 of relay S42.

S41 acts as a supply for the whole system. Pin 30 connects to S36 fuse.

S36 connects to the Battery itself and the other side has S12, S42, S41 connected to it via pin 30 on the relays.

I know it might sound obvious but have you thought checking the correct operation of the relays (S42)? I had a worn and faulty relay in the end and when I replaced it problem solved.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong won't take it personally lol.

G A N Z


--------------------
G A N Z 145

Instagram
ganz145_alfa
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 28th March 2017 06:40
Post #15 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(Ganz @ 28th March 2017 01:10) *
S42 relay.
Been a while since my BBoB O Yay experience. S42 is the key operated supply relay: this supplies live feed to circuits when the key is in and turned in the drive (on) position. This provides supply to side lights, sunroof and a shed load of circuits that would not get a supply of electricity). This is as opposed to circuits that are always 'ON' like the rear boot push button on the centre console. This relay is very important as it also supplies the feed to the control unit (Montronic ECU) through pin 27 (on the ECU) and also provides the supply to the primary windings of the coils.

S42 relay: pin 30 (pin numbered 30 on the relay) is connected to S36 the large fuse in your engine bay near the front suspension strut. With ignition key turned , check for 12V at pin 85 of relay S42.

S41 acts as a supply for the whole system. Pin 30 connects to S36 fuse.

S36 connects to the Battery itself and the other side has S12, S42, S41 connected to it via pin 30 on the relays.

I know it might sound obvious but have you thought checking the correct operation of the relays (S42)? I had a worn and faulty relay in the end and when I replaced it problem solved.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong won't take it personally lol.

G A N Z


Thanks Ganz but it would appear as GE says, that the other relay I have is not S42, this has been integrated (M2.10.4 ECU) and the key operated supply goes directly to the ECU, the other relay I have is most likely the A/C relay.

I've also read a lot about the cam sensor making no difference to the car starting but according to the manual it is needed for the time injection of the car, any experience with that? Perhaps it is different on the cf1 vs cf2?

I really want to drive my 145 now, this is becoming such a pia now!

According to everything I've checked that car should be starting!! But no, nothing.

No negative pulse from the ECU, why oh why?

I should hopefully have another diagnostic cable by the weekend but I doubt it will tell me anything at all...
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 31st March 2017 05:26
Post #16 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



So last night I got another VAG COM cable and this time it works!

I ran MES and no errors... I then ran the Actuator test, activate each injector at a time with the injectors out and there was a very faint series of clicks at each injector that I tested. Tick . Tick. Tick. - no fuel coming out though, despite the fuel rail being pressurised.

My thought is then that the ECU is OK?

I feel that the switching signal is simply weak. What could cause this? I can only assume this is the same for the plugs.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 31st March 2017 20:10
Post #17 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(zanetti @ 31st March 2017 06:26) *
So last night I got another VAG COM cable and this time it works!

I ran MES and no errors... I then ran the Actuator test, activate each injector at a time with the injectors out and there was a very faint series of clicks at each injector that I tested. Tick . Tick. Tick. - no fuel coming out though, despite the fuel rail being pressurised.

What happens if you apply 12v directly to the injector from the battery terminals with fuel pressure applied (i.e. eliminating any of the car wiring loom or the ECU circuitry)? See if any fuel squirts out of any of the injectors when you do this. Obviously take relevant precautions by putting the end of the injector into an enclosed jar when doing this to avoid squirting raw fuel everywhere which could risk causing a fire.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 1st April 2017 06:06
Post #18 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 31st March 2017 22:10) *
What happens if you apply 12v directly to the injector from the battery terminals with fuel pressure applied (i.e. eliminating any of the car wiring loom or the ECU circuitry)? See if any fuel squirts out of any of the injectors when you do this. Obviously take relevant precautions by putting the end of the injector into an enclosed jar when doing this to avoid squirting raw fuel everywhere which could risk causing a fire.


That was one of the first things I checked hoping that it was a fuel pump/relay issue but no, the injectors squirt really well if I apply 12v directly to each injector.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 1st April 2017 07:42
Post #19 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:47
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(zanetti @ 1st April 2017 07:06) *
That was one of the first things I checked hoping that it was a fuel pump/relay issue but no, the injectors squirt really well if I apply 12v directly to each injector.

OK, sorry. I forgot you mentioning that but I now see you said that in your very first post.

What I'm not 100% sure of is if the injector actuator test fully opens each injector or if the test is just designed to test the actuation without actually squirting any fuel. If you pull off the injector rail and stick each injector into a jar then turn the engine over normally, do you get any fuel being squirted into the jars (i.e. when the injectors are operating under normal conditions and not under an actuator test condition)?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
zanetti
post 1st April 2017 11:54
Post #20 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 62
Joined: 29th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 09:47
Member No.: 984
Driving: Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 TS
From: South Africa



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 1st April 2017 09:42) *
OK, sorry. I forgot you mentioning that but I now see you said that in your very first post.

What I'm not 100% sure of is if the injector actuator test fully opens each injector or if the test is just designed to test the actuation without actually squirting any fuel. If you pull off the injector rail and stick each injector into a jar then turn the engine over normally, do you get any fuel being squirted into the jars (i.e. when the injectors are operating under normal conditions and not under an actuator test condition)?


No problem, well no, no fuel squirting when cranking that's kind of the problem... No spark either...
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24 Oct 2017 07:47