IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Alfa Romeo 146 no power, Sensor failure or ?
Yoshevski
post 4th September 2016 11:41
Post #1 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



Hi to all,

I'm following this forum for some time ago, looking for various solutions to alfa 146 problem.

I have 146 from 12.2000 1.4 TS and recently got a problem with it.

Symptoms:
- when cold start, car should work in idle until it reach 70C temp. before it gets power to move.
- when driving at open road it can't accelerate more than 110km/h on flat road.
- when driving uphill it bearly have power to move in 3rd gear.
- when I unplug MAF sensor the car gets it full power.

What I did so far:
- replaced lambda sensor - problem still appears
- replaced all sparks and temp. sensor - problem still appears
- put it on diagnosis and got err code p1173
- got new MAF sensor , but when I plug it red light lights on the dashboard (looks like injector light) and I get black smoke from the exhaust.
with this new MAF car it has its full power.




I had spent big amount of money so far but the car still is not working properly.

Can anyone provide any help, idea, solution?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 4th September 2016 12:17
Post #2 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(Yoshevski @ 4th September 2016 12:41) *
Hi to all,

I'm following this forum for some time ago, looking for various solutions to alfa 146 problem.

I have 146 from 12.2000 1.4 TS and recently got a problem with it.

Symptoms:
- when cold start, car should work in idle until it reach 70C temp. before it gets power to move.
- when driving at open road it can't accelerate more than 110km/h on flat road.
- when driving uphill it bearly have power to move in 3rd gear.
- when I unplug MAF sensor the car gets it full power.

What I did so far:
- replaced lambda sensor - problem still appears
- replaced all sparks and temp. sensor - problem still appears
- put it on diagnosis and got err code p1173
- got new MAF sensor , but when I plug it red light lights on the dashboard (looks like injector light) and I get black smoke from the exhaust.
with this new MAF car it has its full power.
I had spent big amount of money so far but the car still is not working properly.

Can anyone provide any help, idea, solution?

Thanks




Hi have you checked the relays in front of the battery we call it the B.B.O.B. biggrin.gif lol. black box of b#l#ks
Check the wires and the connectors to the relays. AS THEY get a lot of corrosion on them!. Being so far in front of the car


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 4th September 2016 14:45
Post #3 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



QUOTE(black 146 @ 4th September 2016 12:17) *
Hi have you checked the relays in front of the battery we call it the B.B.O.B. biggrin.gif lol. black box of b#l#ks
Check the wires and the connectors to the relays. AS THEY get a lot of corrosion on them!. Being so far in front of the car



Hi, thanks for the answer, yes I had check these relays too, also had cleaned them with spray to remove corrosion, but nothing changed after that.

Is there any possibility for manual tunning the fuel intake? Like on the old cars?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 4th September 2016 19:31
Post #4 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(Yoshevski @ 4th September 2016 15:45) *
Hi, thanks for the answer, yes I had check these relays too, also had cleaned them with spray to remove corrosion, but nothing changed after that.

Is there any possibility for manual tunning the fuel intake? Like on the old cars?

Thanks



not rely .You could clean the throttle body out with some cab cleaner if you have someone holding the throttle up high then spray loads of it straight into the body trying to keep the rev's up when you're spraying
But that won't put that light on in the dash . I would try to replace the relays.! as the condition of the wire ok not hard or brittle
And did you replace all the parts as new ? AND bosch makes ??


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 5th September 2016 14:50
Post #5 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



QUOTE(black 146 @ 4th September 2016 19:31) *
not rely .You could clean the throttle body out with some cab cleaner if you have someone holding the throttle up high then spray loads of it straight into the body trying to keep the rev's up when you're spraying
But that won't put that light on in the dash . I would try to replace the relays.! as the condition of the wire ok not hard or brittle
And did you replace all the parts as new ? AND bosch makes ??


except the sparks which are "champion" everything I had replaced is Bosch made, anyways I was unable to find parts from other manufacturer smile.gif

yesterday I drove the car with the new MAF sensor , the red light was on , on the dashboard but the car was going as crazy, I have passed some 100km road, and everything seems well except the black smoke from the exhaust when the car is idle.

Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 5th September 2016 18:44
Post #6 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(Yoshevski @ 5th September 2016 15:50) *
except the sparks which are "champion" everything I had replaced is Bosch made, anyways I was unable to find parts from other manufacturer smile.gif

yesterday I drove the car with the new MAF sensor , the red light was on , on the dashboard but the car was going as crazy, I have passed some 100km road, and everything seems well except the black smoke from the exhaust when the car is idle.



Have you tried to run the car with the maff unplugged ??. And you can unplug the lambda
and i still think you may have problem with a relay

This post has been edited by black 146: 5th September 2016 18:49


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 5th September 2016 23:57
Post #7 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



Did you do a complete ECU reset after you replaced the sensors? If you haven't then do that before doing anything else. A proper reset can only be done electronically using diagnostic software (i.e. Multiecuscan or one of the other pieces of diagnostic software listed HERE). Just unplugging the ECU and leaving it unplugged overnight will NOT reset it.

I spent ages chasing a P1173 error on mine some time ago and after replacing the lambda, MAF and doing an ECU reset the problem was eventually resolved. Unfortunately I don't know which of the 3 actually fixed the problem. My original thread is HERE with the conclusion in Post #39.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 8th September 2016 18:07
Post #8 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



Hi Giallo,

I haven't reset the ECU just had battery unplugged for 30 min. Today I had tried again to use the new sensor, I had started the car and left it to work only to idle. Somehow the new sensor was recognized the red light mentioned in the first post has turned off. Now the car is having hard time to keep rpm to 900 when idle, but also it won't react when I press the gas pedal - in most cases goes to 0rpm and turns off.

I got the old and new maf outside the car and measured the signals of both sensors, there is a slight difference between both sensors e.g 0.03 difference in values e.g old returns 1.8v new returns 1.83v which is okay I think.

New symptom is that with the new lambda and old maf goes even worse than before, it bearly gets 90km/h on open road.

I will try again to run diagnostic with the new sensor and new lambda according the latest changes to see if there is any error. In case everything left the same then I will run ECU reset.

And at the end no matter of the result, I will have to sell it, have no time to play around.

Thanks to all for the help, I will keep you posted for any update.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 8th September 2016 19:24
Post #9 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



have you tried to look at the coil packs / leads ?
maybe unplug. One at a time to see how the running goes


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 8th September 2016 21:28
Post #10 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



Haven't check that, but since all sparks are new and when I was replacing them there wasn't anything corroded I assume that are ok. But definitely I will check that too. Thanks

Edit: also there is some delay between the action I take and reaction I get by the car. When I press on the gas nothing happens at the same moment, but when I start releasing the pedal then I get reaction from the car (accelerates), which still refers to the MAF. Tomorrow I'm going to check the coild, reset the ECU and run diagnostics again, I hope that I will solve the problem smile.gif

This post has been edited by Yoshevski: 8th September 2016 21:39
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 10th September 2016 17:20
Post #11 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



As I had said here is an update :
I did check the coils everything okay with them, then I run ecu diagnosis again on both old and new maf, same error code appears from both 1173. Later on I have reseted the ecu from PC, yet nothing has changed.

I have tried to use a diode together with old maf. When I connect pin 5,4 with diode and plug the maf, nothing new, when I connect pin 4,3 with diode and plug maf then motor runs on 2000+rpm when I press the gas pedal car goes off. I was using 1N4184 diode.

If I unplug the maf and use the diode only on the maf connector, when I connect pins 4,3 and start the car, is working properly just black smoke gets out from the exhaust - wrong mixture.

So I'm at no more ideas point, except to buy another maf from some old Alfa car and to see if something get fixed.

This post has been edited by Yoshevski: 10th September 2016 17:23
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Yoshevski
post 2nd October 2016 15:19
Post #12 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 4th September 2016
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
Member No.: 12,813
Driving: Alfa Romeo 146
From: Macedonia



QUOTE(Yoshevski @ 10th September 2016 17:20) *
As I had said here is an update :
I did check the coils everything okay with them, then I run ecu diagnosis again on both old and new maf, same error code appears from both 1173. Later on I have reseted the ecu from PC, yet nothing has changed.

I have tried to use a diode together with old maf. When I connect pin 5,4 with diode and plug the maf, nothing new, when I connect pin 4,3 with diode and plug maf then motor runs on 2000+rpm when I press the gas pedal car goes off. I was using 1N4184 diode.

If I unplug the maf and use the diode only on the maf connector, when I connect pins 4,3 and start the car, is working properly just black smoke gets out from the exhaust - wrong mixture.

So I'm at no more ideas point, except to buy another maf from some old Alfa car and to see if something get fixed.


Issue solved, actually I had replaced the thermistor on the original MAF according the Bosch specs for this model, and everything works well now. It cost me 0.5Euro smile.gif

Hope this will help to someone else.

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 2nd October 2016 20:44
Post #13 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 24th October 2017 08:45
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(Yoshevski @ 2nd October 2016 16:19) *
Issue solved, actually I had replaced the thermistor on the original MAF according the Bosch specs for this model, and everything works well now. It cost me 0.5Euro smile.gif

So am I correct in saying that you weren't using a genuine Bosch MAF before? I can't see any reference to the manufacturer of the MAFs you were trying so I think everyone just assumed you were using a genuine Bosch MAF as a replacement.

It's a well known fact that the Twin Spark engines do not like anything but a genuine Bosch part when it comes to the MAF. The Chinese copies are a complete waste of time and money.

Anyway, I'm glad you eventually got to the bottom of the problem smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24 Oct 2017 07:45