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> Cloverleaf hesitation when cold, 2001 cloverleaf juddering
Dmoore30
post 8th August 2016 10:49
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Hi, wondered if anyone could give me a good starting point!
I have a 2001 cloverleaf with immaculate service history on 132k, my issue is minor but annoying!
When started cold the car starts and ticks over fine but hesitates and lightly judders for around a couple of minutes before running correctly.
The car pulls immaculately soon as warm, seem to remember my 156 being similar but I ignored that but this car is much more special so I would like to resolve.
Any suggestions greatly recieved, the car is totally standard and main dealer/Jamie porter serviced from new.
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pyle
post 8th August 2016 19:19
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QUOTE(Dmoore30 @ 8th August 2016 10:49) *
Hi, wondered if anyone could give me a good starting point!
I have a 2001 cloverleaf with immaculate service history on 132k, my issue is minor but annoying!
When started cold the car starts and ticks over fine but hesitates and lightly judders for around a couple of minutes before running correctly.
The car pulls immaculately soon as warm, seem to remember my 156 being similar but I ignored that but this car is much more special so I would like to resolve.
Any suggestions greatly recieved, the car is totally standard and main dealer/Jamie porter serviced from new.



Mine also does it before it reaches around 50c on the dash. It nose dives around 2000rpm when the variator shifts which I think is a fueling problem...
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FactoryOsaruJPN
post 9th August 2016 16:21
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QUOTE(pyle @ 8th August 2016 19:19) *
Mine also does it before it reaches around 50c on the dash. It nose dives around 2000rpm when the variator shifts which I think is a fueling problem...


Oh,mine does it,too.
My twinny has less power before it gets warmer than 50c and the exhaust noise is much louder when it is cold.


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I have driven 145 for more than 17 years in Hokkaido the most northern/coldest district of Japan.
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pyle
post 10th August 2016 21:12
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QUOTE(FactoryOsaruJPN @ 9th August 2016 16:21) *
Oh,mine does it,too.
My twinny has less power before it gets warmer than 50c and the exhaust noise is much louder when it is cold.


It has to do with ignition timing (the loud exhaust) but there are fuel issues and somewhere here someone fixed this problem with a brand new lambda sensor, which makes sense if the lambda heater isn't working, it can get up to temp and respond fast enough before 50C so it's my next stop.
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FactoryOsaruJPN
post 11th August 2016 05:54
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QUOTE(pyle @ 10th August 2016 21:12) *
It has to do with ignition timing (the loud exhaust) but there are fuel issues and somewhere here someone fixed this problem with a brand new lambda sensor, which makes sense if the lambda heater isn't working, it can get up to temp and respond fast enough before 50C so it's my next stop.


Thinks do you know how to adjust ignition timing for instance using some apps like FiatECUScan?




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I have driven 145 for more than 17 years in Hokkaido the most northern/coldest district of Japan.
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pyle
post 13th August 2016 08:22
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QUOTE(FactoryOsaruJPN @ 11th August 2016 05:54) *
Thinks do you know how to adjust ignition timing for instance using some apps like FiatECUScan?


The ignition can't be adjusted, its controlled by the ECU which has a very very poor ignition map from the factory..
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Dmoore30
post 21st August 2016 19:21
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Thanks for info, for me it seems on the fueling side and lambada could be worth changing. Just done 1000 miles in the last week down to Cornwall and back with 5 in the car and ran like a dream with 45 mpg on the motorway! Still a pig when cold though! I'd say it is not fuelling enough on cold start up (similar to my 1977 scimitar gte! But that is easy to fix with one turn if mixture screw!)
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langers
post 22nd August 2016 11:47
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Think about the sensors that can fluctuate and become faulty. The ignition and MAP on these cars are pretty robust. Look towards your sensors.
MAF
LAMBDA
COOLANT TEMP SENSOR


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black 146
post 23rd August 2016 12:18
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QUOTE(langers @ 22nd August 2016 12:47) *
Think about the sensors that can fluctuate and become faulty. The ignition and MAP on these cars are pretty robust. Look towards your sensors.
MAF
LAMBDA
COOLANT TEMP SENSOR




+ 1 And don't do cheap


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pyle
post 23rd August 2016 14:45
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My Lambda needs changing. Fuel.economy is all right I get 23-5 mpg city driving.
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black 146
post 23rd August 2016 19:37
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QUOTE(pyle @ 23rd August 2016 15:45) *
My Lambda needs changing. Fuel.economy is all right I get 23-5 mpg city driving.




i would start with that. But go bosch


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Dave Brand
post 30th August 2016 18:24
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It could well be a faulty lambda sensor. From a cold start the lambda reading is ignored by the ECU (in control language open loop), but at a higher, but still low, temperature it goes into normal, closed loop mode. When this happens if the ECU's getting a false, high lambda reading it will weaken the mixture to compensate even though the engine is still cold enough to need a richer than normal mixture to run correctly.
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NaanBread
post 2nd September 2016 12:41
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Poor running from cold points towards MAF, common with the CF2's. But other sensors mentioned may cause this as well.

Sometimes it does not throw up any faults. Get a new Bosch MAF (don't forget vauxhall mafs fit) and problems will probably subside.


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pyle
post 2nd September 2016 16:24
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QUOTE(Dave Brand @ 30th August 2016 18:24) *
It could well be a faulty lambda sensor. From a cold start the lambda reading is ignored by the ECU (in control language open loop), but at a higher, but still low, temperature it goes into normal, closed loop mode. When this happens if the ECU's getting a false, high lambda reading it will weaken the mixture to compensate even though the engine is still cold enough to need a richer than normal mixture to run correctly.


That's the case probably.. Could also be the ECU temp sensor which enriches the mixture when cold.

QUOTE(NaanBread @ 2nd September 2016 12:41) *
Poor running from cold points towards MAF, common with the CF2's. But other sensors mentioned may cause this as well.

Sometimes it does not throw up any faults. Get a new Bosch MAF (don't forget vauxhall mafs fit) and problems will probably subside.


I've tested mine (CF1) and it flows superb but the hesitation is still present.
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alfizta
post 11th September 2016 20:06
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with CF2 ECUs there is also a software update that delays the engagement of the lambda to avoid that hesitancy.
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pyle
post 9th November 2016 16:47
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Did you solve your problem? Everyone is suggesting running with a disconnected MAF, I can't, how do you guys do it?

P.S. So today I drove with the lambda off and the car ran superb, no rev surge or anything, but the cold first few minutes hesitation and power loss was still present so I guess the ECU temperature sensor is also not working properly..

This post has been edited by pyle: 10th November 2016 12:35
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pyle
post 11th November 2016 17:22
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I've been driving all day without lambda and variator solenoid and same old story, but generally the car runs better.. I had a chat with a friend of mine who had the twin spark with a stand alone ECU and he told me that when the solenoid is disconnected the car runs lean, and cold car- lean mixture equals no power.. So its all in the VVT from my point of view for now. Hope it helps
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