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> Diy Cambelt Change, Help & Advice
GialloEvo94
post 26th January 2017 14:56
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QUOTE(billyleung_146 @ 26th January 2017 04:43) *
One more thing is how to hold the cam sprockets while tightening them up. The alfa tools 1.822.155.000. and 1.822.146.000. are nowhere to be found. I guess some universal cam sprocket holders can hold the exhaust one, but how about the inlet one? Need special tools? or hand made tools?

You don't really need either of the camshaft holding tools.
  1. Make sure the cam locking blocks are fitted.
  2. Make sure the sprocket on the exhaust cam is fully tightened. In fact, if you are just swapping the cams over from you original head, don't even remove the sprocket from the camshaft. Just transfer it across as one piece, so the sprocket on it will already be fully tightened.
  3. Loosen the 4 bolts that are holding the inlet camshaft sprocket to the variator. This sprocket has a vernier arrangement whereby loosening those 4 bolts allows the sprocket to be rotated a bit either clockwise or anti-clockwise due to the slotted holes.
  4. Set the crankshaft to TDC and find an appropriate way to lock/hold the crankshaft firmly in position so it doesn't move while you are fitting the belts.
  5. Fit the timing belt around the camshaft sprockets, the crankshaft pulley, and the tensioning pulleys as per the workshop manual instructions.
  6. Fully tension the timing belt with the inlet cam sprocket still loose. Tensioning the belt will then cause that sprocket to be pulled round into its correct position.
  7. Once the belt is fully tensioned, tighten the 4 bolts on the inlet camshaft sprocket.
Your timing belt is now correctly fitted and you can safely remove the cam locking blocks smile.gif


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billyleung_146
post 26th January 2017 16:09
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worshippy.gif Thanks for the detailed steps.

Firstly I suspect the timing was not actuate because i happened to know the previous mechanics didn't use the cam locks....

I saw from photos that the exhaust cam pulley has a key way so its position can't be wrong once tightened? So if anything wrong, only can happen on the inlet pulley, which will be reset anyway, right?

I was thinking while tightening up the 4 small bolts of the inlet cam pulley, the specialist holder might be needed to prevent putting rotational stress on the cam shaft. But seems your experience says that is not necessary.

Thanks !

Any good way to hold the crankshaft? How about putting into 1st gear and put a brick on the brake pedal ? rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 26th January 2017 16:22
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GialloEvo94
post 26th January 2017 22:14
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QUOTE(billyleung_146 @ 26th January 2017 16:09) *
I saw from photos that the exhaust cam pulley has a key way so its position can't be wrong once tightened? So if anything wrong, only can happen on the inlet pulley, which will be reset anyway, right?

I was thinking while tightening up the 4 small bolts of the inlet cam pulley, the specialist holder might be needed to prevent putting rotational stress on the cam shaft. But seems your experience says that is not necessary.

Any good way to hold the crankshaft? How about putting into 1st gear and put a brick on the brake pedal ? rolleyes.gif

Yes, the exhaust pulley uses a woodruff key type setup so the pulley only goes on in one position and the keyway also prevents the pulley from moving/slipping round once located. So even with the bolt on the exhaust pulley slightly loose you can't rotate the pulley on the end of the camshaft which means there is little point in loosening the exhaust cam pulley bolt when fitting the new belt. Also, that bolt requires 124Nm of torque to tighten it back up so you're better off just leaving it alone if you can possibly help it.

The torque required to tighten the 4 inlet cam pullet bolts is minimal and the tensioned belt in conjunction with the locked crankshaft is holding the pulleys fairly solidly in position so this counteracts any rotational force created by tightening those 4 bolts.

Putting the car into gear is an option for locking the crankshaft but keep in mind that there is an amount of play (take-up slack) in the transmission gearing so with that method you would need to keep a careful eye on piston 1 TDC as you're fitting the belt. Another option is to be a bit imaginative and improvise by fabricating something that to can bolt into some of the bolt holes in the crankshaft pulley with the other end tethered/bolted to another solid part of the engine close by where there is a usable/appropriate anchoring point.



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JeremyG
post 31st January 2017 01:43
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Another question on the cambelt change procedure - is a new cam cover gasket required on re-assembly?

Or is this only necessary if there is evidence of a leak with the existing gasket?
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GialloEvo94
post 31st January 2017 07:15
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No, I wouldn't bother changing the cam cover gasket unless it's actually leaking.


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Ganz
post 4th February 2017 22:09
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Im about to do this very same job. Just for the record my balancer belt has 130 teeth. My 145t is a 1996 ph1.


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billyleung_146
post 19th February 2017 23:48
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Finally got some time to fit the new cambelt kit. My case was:

- cambelt idler pully exploded
- cambelt slipped
- try to refit new cambelt kit and check if the head is damaged

Something confusing happened.... I followed all the steps: camblock, TDC gauge, cambelt marking alignment (ext cam and crank), etc . But when i rotate the crankshaft, the cambelt markings never meet with the exhaust pulley marking and the crank pulley marking anymore. I took off everything and redid it, but it was still the same. Someone had put some markings on the 2 cam pulleys and the crank pulley, and i found that they all matched correctly.

It seems that the timing between the camshafts and the crankshaft was correct, but the cambelt marks does not repeat every 2 rounds. Could it be the cambelt being too long? Well, my engine has a 155 head, but the bottom is original 146. Perhaps I should get a 155 belt? Maybe they have different number of teeth?

I rotated the engine a while and didn't feel anything crashing. I didn't have a compression tester yet, so I tried to fire up the engine. It fired right up, but it makes a loud ticking noise as before. I let it run for about half a min, and the sound kept on. I guess I might have some bent valves, haven't I? I will wait for the compression tester to confirm.

Thank you!

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 20th February 2017 07:23
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Ganz
post 20th February 2017 08:20
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Check the number of teeth. My cambelt has 168 teeth. With the cam locks on and cylinder number 1 at tdc I would have thought the markings on the belt would line up with the crank and pulley.


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billyleung_146
post 20th February 2017 09:42
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QUOTE(Ganz @ 20th February 2017 08:20) *
Check the number of teeth. My cambelt has 168 teeth. With the cam locks on and cylinder number 1 at tdc I would have thought the markings on the belt would line up with the crank and pulley.


yes, I used the cam lock and set TDC with the gauge. And when I put on the belt, the markings matched with the pulleys too. But when I rotate it , they never match again.

Although the belt markings didn't match with the pulley markings, the pulleys seemed to match with some "self made" markings on the engine.

The belt was bought from alfaworkshop.co.uk. The part number shown on the box was 0055210628-00. It was a genuine alfa belt

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 20th February 2017 09:45
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GialloEvo94
post 20th February 2017 10:16
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Don't get too hung up on the marks on the belt not lining up again after a couple of turns of the crankshaft. I forget the maths but it takes quite a lot of turns of the crankshaft before those marks come back into alignment again. The marks are really only there so set the inital position of the pulleys when you first fit the belts. Just make sure the cam locking blocks fit back on after every 2 camshaft turns.

As long as you've got a belt with the correct number of teeth for your engine, you will be fine smile.gif


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billyleung_146
post 20th February 2017 21:23
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Now that time timing is set and pulleys are new, I guess the loud ticking noise suggests that some of my valves are gone, isn't it? :/ My cam variator had always been quite, so I think it can't be the source of sound. The engine still starts and revs.

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 20th February 2017 21:25
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GialloEvo94
post 21st February 2017 21:20
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Where is the ticking noise coming from? The top end (head) or the bottom end (sump)?

The Twin Spark is an interference engine so if your cam belt pulley exploded and the belt slipped while the engine was running then I think you will be very lucky if you didn't damage any valves. However, if the engine is running without sounding lumpy or chucking out smoke then you may just have got lucky. It would probably be well worth you getting a compression test and/or leakdown test done on each of the cylinders.

If there is no valve damage then it's quite possible that the noise is coming from one or more of the hydraulic tappets.


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Ganz
post 22nd February 2017 00:18
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QUOTE(billyleung_146 @ 26th January 2017 04:43) *
Thanks! I meant the variator shell bearing. Ok should get new ones.

One more thing is how to hold the cam sprockets while tightening them up. The alfa tools 1.822.155.000. and 1.822.146.000. are nowhere to be found. I guess some universal cam sprocket holders can hold the exhaust one, but how about the inlet one? Need special tools? or hand made tools?


I'm going to be doing the same job you are pretty soon.

Attached Image

The variator cost 119 and the variator shells about 35 from Shop4Parts (I think)

Attached Image

The cam tools needed all found on eBay. I got the pulley tool and the cam locks really cheap. I think I paid 15 for both!! The tensioner tools also sourced on eBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40...ol&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Alf...ol&_sacat=0

Attached Image

Cam, balancer, auxiliary tensioners and water pump.


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billyleung_146
post 23rd February 2017 19:47
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 21st February 2017 21:20) *
Where is the ticking noise coming from? The top end (head) or the bottom end (sump)?

The Twin Spark is an interference engine so if your cam belt pulley exploded and the belt slipped while the engine was running then I think you will be very lucky if you didn't damage any valves. However, if the engine is running without sounding lumpy or chucking out smoke then you may just have got lucky. It would probably be well worth you getting a compression test and/or leakdown test done on each of the cylinders.

If there is no valve damage then it's quite possible that the noise is coming from one or more of the hydraulic tappets.


The noise is coming from the top end. After setting the cam locks while the old cambelt still on, I found that the crank pulley indicated 2 teeth difference....

I have just got the compression tester yesterday, will do the test asap. Before the incident, the head was absolutely silent. Could the cambelt slip caused any damage to the tappets?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 23rd February 2017 19:51
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billyleung_146
post 8th March 2017 19:45
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Dear all,

I finally got the time to do the compression test, and following are the results

Cylinder 1 2 3 4

Psi 155 85 150 145 (1st round, I suspect the hose wasn't screwed down properly when doing #2)
Psi 155 110 150 145 (2nd round)
Psi 155 140 150 145 (after adding a bit of oil to cylinder #2)


I also checked the tappets while hand rotating the engine, nothing seemed to be stuck. Then I put everything back and tried to fire up. It still fired up easily and idled properly, just making a loud ticking noise. The frequency of the ticking sounded like one single valve. What should I do next? Take the head off I guess...

https://youtu.be/_ASjI-AHFOk here is the video of it running

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 9th March 2017 05:35
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billyleung_146
post 9th March 2017 17:55
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BTW, I didn't put on the balance belt while testing. I guess that should not be the reason for the ticking noise?
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billyleung_146
post 9th March 2017 21:27
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ohmy.gif Strange things happened...

After i run the engine for a while, and rev it up a little bit, the ticking noise is gone! All seemed well. Now I guess the noise is from the variator. But my variator never had made any noise in the pass 12500 km before the cambelt slip happened.

I let the engine run up to temperature, and redid the compression test and got 130/130/130/140psi

However, when I let the engine cool down and restart it, the loud ticking comes back for a while until I rev the engine a few times then it is gone again. Is this an early symptom of variator failure?

I case I need to change the variator, can I unscrew it while the camshaft is in the head? Is the cam lock strong enough to hold the camshaft? Any risk of damaging the head?

Thanks!!

This post has been edited by billyleung_146: 9th March 2017 21:55
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Ganz
post 11th June 2017 00:55
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QUOTE(billyleung_146 @ 9th March 2017 22:27) *
ohmy.gif Strange things happened...

After i run the engine for a while, and rev it up a little bit, the ticking noise is gone! All seemed well. Now I guess the noise is from the variator. But my variator never had made any noise in the pass 12500 km before the cambelt slip happened.

I let the engine run up to temperature, and redid the compression test and got 130/130/130/140psi

However, when I let the engine cool down and restart it, the loud ticking comes back for a while until I rev the engine a few times then it is gone again. Is this an early symptom of variator failure?

I case I need to change the variator, can I unscrew it while the camshaft is in the head? Is the cam lock strong enough to hold the camshaft? Any risk of damaging the head?

Thanks!!


If you user longer bolts on the cam locks and use an impact gun i reckon the variator would come off but mine was seized solid and I needed to take the camshaft out and heat the variator before using an impact gun to get the variator off.


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