Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Alfa Romeo 145 - 146 Forum _ ECU Diagnostics _ ECU Diagnostics (DIY)

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd January 2011 00:11

As this question seems to get asked quite often, I thought it was time for an FAQ with a definitive guide of what hardware and software is required for doing DIY ECU diagnostics on the 145/146.

The 145/146 uses a 3-pin connector for all diagnostic connection points on the car and NOT a 16-pin OBD connector as found on a lot of other modern cars (including other Alfas). The locations of each of the diagnostic connectors on the 145/146 are as follows (click on the pictures for a full size view):-

  1. Engine ECU Diagnostics Connector

    Alloy top CF1 Engine


    Plastic top CF2 Engine


  2. Airbag ECU Diagnostics Connector



  3. ABS ECU Diagnostics Connector

In order to run diagnostics on any of these ECUs you will need a laptop running Microsoft Windows XP or later that has a 9-pin Serial COM port and/or a USB port on it. You will then need the following cables/leads (click on the description links to show matching items on eBay):-
  1. 1 x http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=OBD+VAG+COM+KKL+USB or 1 x http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=OBD2+%28DB9%2CRS232%2CSERIAL%29+%28Cable%2CInterface%29+%28COM%2CVAG%29+-%28Board%2CConsult%2CELM%2CPLC%2CPLX%2CRS485%2CScanner%2CUSB%29



  2. 1 x http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=Alfa+OBD+Cable+(Adapter,+3Pin)

WARNING: Before purchasing one of the USB interface cables, be aware of the following post about FTDI chipset based cables:-
http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=23940

Once you have the required hardware, you will then need to download and install some software that is capable of talking to the ECU. The most commonly used ones are as follows (click on the software title links to visit the software vendor web sites):-From personal experience, the software I would recommend using for the 145/146 is http://www.multiecuscan.net as it is very easy to use and supports diagnosis of the ABS ECU in addition to the Engine ECU and Airbag ECU. It also works with the largest number of Fiat/Alfa/Lancia cars of any of the software available so may be useful if you ever by another Italian car.

Posted by: xyy81t 3rd January 2011 00:25

thumbsup.gif Great write up GE.

i would also recommend Fiat ECU Scan as it is far simpler and clearer than Alfadiag.

i have not used (or needed to use) any of the other available softwares.

Posted by: cesar86 3rd January 2011 12:34

Another nice guide, GE!

That thing with the FiatECUScan and alloy-top engine ECUs is new to me, good to know!

But... Bad to know that if i want to use it, will need to spend 50,00 euros sad.gif

Posted by: Hybrd 3rd January 2011 13:18

AVOID UNISCAN!

Gio managed to get it working on our PC in the workshop, and up until the point i left we had never managed to successfuly comunicate with an ecu ar reset any lights laugh.gif

Posted by: Steve Hill 3rd January 2011 13:27

Excellent work as always.

Would it be worth mentioning that the phase 1 Engine ECU diagnostic connector is in a different position to the picture shown and is in the passenger footwell?

Posted by: buellboy 3rd January 2011 13:46

QUOTE(Hybrd @ 3rd January 2011 13:18) *
AVOID UNISCAN!

Gio managed to get it working on our PC in the workshop, and up until the point i left we had never managed to successfuly comunicate with an ecu ar reset any lights laugh.gif


I got it to talk to your GM rochester and the GTV but whilst it can connect, it doesn't really have many options to do anything on it!


Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd January 2011 17:00

QUOTE(Steve Hill @ 3rd January 2011 13:27) *
Excellent work as always.

Would it be worth mentioning that the phase 1 Engine ECU diagnostic connector is in a different position to the picture shown and is in the passenger footwell?

On the alloy top (CF1) engine I believe the Engine ECU diagnostics connector is actually in the black box at the back left of the engine bay along with the lambda connector but I don't currently have any pictures. I'm sure there is one on the forum somewhere but I've not managed to find it yet. When I do I will add it to the original post smile.gif

Posted by: Steve Hill 3rd January 2011 20:14

now you got me thinking....am I getting confused with the Spider I ask myself?..I'll have a look tomorrow and get back to you. I have it in my head that the ECU is in the passenger footwell under the carpet and lead comes out of it and sits behind the centre console..wherever it is I'll take a piccy unless someone already has one.

Posted by: langers 3rd January 2011 20:20

Zee one on the left...





Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd January 2011 20:39

QUOTE(langers @ 3rd January 2011 20:20) *
Zee one on the left...

Thanks thumbsup.gif That's the exact picture I saw before...I'm sure you've put it in another post before to do with the lambda sensor connector. I'll also add it to the first post so all the information is in one place smile.gif

Posted by: Hybrd 3rd January 2011 20:55

To clear things up, Steve the connector you are thinking of is the Airbag ECU connector biggrin.gif

Posted by: Steve Hill 4th January 2011 10:07

QUOTE(Hybrd @ 3rd January 2011 21:55) *
To clear things up, Steve the connector you are thinking of is the Airbag ECU connector biggrin.gif

ta for that!..unfortunately not sure I can say with any honesty that's the case....the confusion is all in my head.... blush.gif I remember now..what happened was....first time looking for it...ECU under carpet in passenger footwell..found that no probs..then spent next 30 minutes looking for lead/connector, only to eventually find it where Langar shows it to be....and her blooody Spider has it there..honest

Posted by: E500 TAT 14th January 2011 16:43

Slightly off topic gary, i notice the fiatecuscan does not work with the fiat 16vt or the lancia (not the main ECU).

Do you know of any?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 14th January 2011 16:49

QUOTE(E500 TAT @ 14th January 2011 16:43) *
Slightly off topic gary, i notice the fiatecuscan does not work with the fiat 16vt or the lancia (not the main ECU).

Do you know of any?

Yes. Rather than rewriting what I've already written before, have a look at my post on the evocorner forum http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum/messages?msg=25570.2 smile.gif That same software also works with the Weber Marelli IAW "P8" ECU found on the Fiat Coupe 16vt engine.

Posted by: E500 TAT 14th January 2011 18:04

thumbup.gif thumbup.gif

Posted by: buellboy 29th January 2011 08:55

Right, that's it! I've had it with my airbag light!

I've tried all the software in the world and it does not work, HOWEVER it seems to me that there may be some issues with the cables.

As I understand from FiatECUScan, I need to modify my cable if I want to talk to my Airbag. This is as per here:

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

It even states an example for the that for a TRW ECU I need a modified interface or an adapter cable but then sort-of contradicts itself stating that :

PLEASE NOTE: For the old (non-EOBD) vehicles with 3-pin diagnostic connector you need UNMODIFIED interface with 3-pin adapter.

WHAT?

So do I need to modify my cable or not? Furthermore their diagrams are confusing as I'm not gonna get an adapter cable (at 18 for 3....) and swap it everytime I need to connect to the ECU or Airbag or ABS.

I understand that most of the 9 pins on the Serial cable do nothing. We are only using the ground,k-line,l-line, power andsome other cable.

SOOO my plan is to make a custom cable using banana plugs.

For this I need a diagram of OBD-to 3 pin fiat with the name of the lines. I've searched the net but I cannot find any info!

Posted by: GialloEvo94 29th January 2011 09:28

No, you don't need to modify any of the interface cables. Just use the 16-pin OBD cable in conjunction with the 16-pin to 3-pin adapter cable and that is it. No need to mess with any pin rewiring in the 16-pin connector. That is only needed for cars that have a full 16-pin socket on the car (i.e. they don't have the 3-pin socket like we do on the 145/146) and where you plug the 16-pin connector directly into the car without the 3-pin to 16-pin adapter.

I used FiatECUScan to successfully reset my airbag light a few months ago using the vanilla (unmodified) interface cables shown in the first post of this thread.

Can you not actually get FiatECUScan to initialise communication with your airbag ECU at all, or does it initialise comms but is then just not able to clear the logged fault codes?

If it's the first symptom then you either have a bad connection to the airbag ECU (try re-seating the plugs to it) or you have a faulty airbag ECU and will need to get a replacement one.

Posted by: xyy81t 29th January 2011 09:32

mine works fine on the air bag ecu with unmodified cables and fiat ECU scan. so unless there are different ecus requireing different cables? dunno.gif

can you not conenct to the airbag ecu at all?

Posted by: buellboy 29th January 2011 10:11

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 29th January 2011 09:28) *
I used FiatECUScan to successfully reset my airbag light a few months ago using the vanilla (unmodified) interface cables shown in the first post of this thread.
Can you not actually get FiatECUScan to initialise communication with your airbag ECU at all, or does it initialise comms but is then just not able to clear the logged fault codes?


Vanilla...interesting...do you work in finance GE?

I can't talk to the ECU at all, it does not communicate with it. The only reason the light came on is because when I went to swap in my steering wheel, I was inpatient and did not wait the full 30 minutes. This was almost 2 years ago! Ever since then I tried with all sorts of systems to re-set the airbag to no avail.

Uniscan 1.83 was the only thing that managed to connect to the ecu but then complained about "Low power" to the unit.

Do you know if the airbag units are matched? Also on fiatecuscan it states that my system is a TRW (2F), I suspect 2F stands for two front airbags. However my car only has 1 airbag...i wonder if that is causing the problem!

I have tried many times to clean the contacts and re-seat the connector but as I say, it was only a steering wheel swap!


Posted by: GialloEvo94 29th January 2011 11:10

Yep, good guess biggrin.gif I do work in finance (in the IT sector).

Ignoring the Becker airbag system which is only found on the really early cars, there are 2 other systems in use on these cars - the TRW M.Y.97 and the TRW M.Y.99. The latter of the two simply just extends fuctionality to include side airbags. Both systems utilise the same communications protocol and both are supported by FiatECUScan. If yours doesn't have side airbags then you will have the M.Y.97 system.

It sounds like the comms circuitry on yours has died which is preventing you doing any diagnostics.

To rule out any issues with your laptop, OS, or interface cables it would be worth trying to connect them to another 145/146 to test them if you have that option available.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 10:46

QUOTE(buellboy @ 29th January 2011 10:11) *
I can't talk to the ECU at all, it does not communicate with it.

Gio,

I've just discovered that some of our cars have an obscure airbag ECU fitted called a "TRW2". Cars with this airbag ECU only have a steering wheel airbag (i.e. no passenger or side airbags). The TRW2 airbag ECU apparently can't be connected to, read or cleared with any of the software currently available. The part number of the TRW2 airbag ECU is 60631206 (will be written on the ECU somewhere) so it might be checking if the one you have in your car is actually one of these. If it is then it explains why you're having problems connecting to it using software on your laptop.

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 11:26

Cheers GE, I haven't got the car physically in front of me at the moment so I will have to check later ( I would check on EPER but I'm in the middle of a drive partition in ubuntu and it doesn't have IE)

On another even more puzzling note...FiatECUscan doesn't want to connect to my engine ECU! I've tried posting a question on their forum but no-one has replied.

The funny thing is that I'm using top-of-the-range SocketSerial RS232 PCMCIA cards but everyone seems too be using the USB-to-serial cable, so there is no help available on good old fashioned serial!

I have checked my serial port by doing a loopback test whilst connecting pin 2&3 and my port is fine...I'm really puzzled now!

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 11:39

Just checked my spare ECU that came off a car of the exact same year and only one airbag...60631206....dammn! I have a sneaky suspicion my car is the same!

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 12:49

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 11:26) *
On another even more puzzling note...FiatECUscan doesn't want to connect to my engine ECU! I've tried posting a question on their forum but no-one has replied.

The funny thing is that I'm using top-of-the-range SocketSerial RS232 PCMCIA cards but everyone seems too be using the USB-to-serial cable, so there is no help available on good old fashioned serial!

I have checked my serial port by doing a loopback test whilst connecting pin 2&3 and my port is fine...I'm really puzzled now!

Have you been able to connect to any ECU with your setup? Maybe there is something odd going on with the SocketSerial PCMCIA card. I've got both a serial RS232 and a USB cable but generally just use the RS232 one. My old school laptop has a built-in 9-Pin serial port so it's a native serial connection on the laptop motherboard.

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 13:00

Not with FiatECUscan, but Uniscan 1.83 has been fine. Also the loopback test on the RS232 works fine...I still don't know to what baud rate i need to set my COM port to + if it needs DTC, flow control and other fancy things!

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 13:04

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:00) *
I still don't know to what baud rate i need to set my COM port to + if it needs DTC, flow control and other fancy things!

My windows COM port settings just use default settings but I can check the actual setting values when I get home and let you know what they are so you can compare them to yours.

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 13:06

Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1 Pin2 Pin3)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 13:16

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:06) *
Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1 Pin2 Pin3)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)

Will do.

RE your airbag ECU. Just managed to dig up some more information on the TRW2. If it is a TRW2 then it appears that it may have 3 wires going to the 3-pin diagnostic connector socket (the TRW M.Y.97 and M.Y.99 only have 2 wires going to that connector). If it does then it seems that all you need to do is to connect pin 3 in the diagnostic connector socket to a ground point anywhere on the car and it will reset the airbag light. Give that a go and let us know if it works smile.gif

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 13:31

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 13:16) *
RE your airbag ECU. Just managed to dig up some more information on the TRW2. If it is a TRW2 then it appears that it may have 3 wires going to the 3-pin diagnostic connector socket (the TRW M.Y.97 and M.Y.99 only have 2 wires going to that connector). If it does then it seems that all you need to do is to connect pin 3 in the diagnostic connector socket to a ground point anywhere on the car and it will reset the airbag light. Give that a go and let us know if it works smile.gif

I assume that's with the power on? Pin 3 is the pin which is "on its own" ...i.e separated by a little tab as per my diagram

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 14:22

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:31) *
I assume that's with the power on? Pin 3 is the pin which is "on its own" ...i.e separated by a little tab as per my diagram

Yes, you need the ignition switched on to the first click ("MAR") positition. I'm not sure which pin on the diagnostics connector is number 3. There is probably a "1" moulded into the plug next to pin number 1 which would make the pin at the other end number 3 but without having a plug in front of me I couldn't say for sure. See the following attachment for the full TRW2 airbag diagnosis / reset procedure and wiring diagram (click pictures for a full size view)...



Posted by: IgoRR 3rd February 2011 15:26

People who use the diagnostics with USB connection, do you have any problems?

btw what to do with the red and black clamp with one of the cables?

thnx coolio.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 15:34

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 3rd February 2011 15:26) *
People who use the diagnostics with USB connection, do you have any problems?

btw what to do with the red and black clamp with one of the cables?

When using the USB cables you can get more frequent connection drop-outs than you do with RS232. This is why I use the RS232 interface whenever possible (i.e. on laptops which have a 9-pin serial port).

The red fly-lead clips to the positive terminal of the battery and the black fly-lead clips to the negative terminal of tha battery although you don't actually need to use the black fly-lead because one of the 3 pins in the ECU diagnostics connector is a negative connection (there is no positive connection in the diag connector so you always need to use the red fly-lead).

Posted by: IgoRR 3rd February 2011 15:44

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 16:34) *
When using the USB cables you can get more frequent connection drop-outs than you do with RS232. This is why I use the RS232 interface whenever possible (i.e. on laptops which have a 9-pin serial port).

The red fly-lead clips to the positive terminal of the battery and the black fly-lead clips to the negative terminal of tha battery although you don't actually need to use the black fly-lead because one of the 3 pins in the ECU diagnostics connector is a negative connection (there is no positive connection in the diag connector so you always need to use the red fly-lead).


Thank you very much.
I thought that the clamps were used for powering. Thnx for the tip

With USB you can normaly diagnose the car/air bag/etc, you just don't get real time measures of eg. engine speed?

Posted by: buellboy 3rd February 2011 15:45

looking at that second diagram it looks like the K-line is connected to pin 4 of the ECU which means on my diagram is PIN3.

Given that the manual states the need to short out pin 3, I highly doubt this would be referring to the K-line. In all probability then the fiat 3 pin is connector is:

Male plug:

L-Line ---G---- K-Line
( Pin3 Pin2 Pin1 ) OR (Pin1Pin2 Pin3)

The important thing here is to have a look at the safety plastic separator tag| (more compelling reason as to not short out the K-line)

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 16:07

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 15:45) *
The important thing here is to have a look at the safety plastic separator tag| (more compelling reason as to not short out the K-line)

There is no "L" line as such, the 3rd pin is just a status feed connection. You shouldn't be able to do any damage by shorting the K-line to ground because it's just a comms line and by doing so you'll just be setting it to a permanant "low" state which won't do anything. So, you should be able to try grounding both of the outer pins in turn to see which one triggers the diagnosis/reset procedure without the risk of damaging the ECU if you happen to choose the wrong pin on your first attempt.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 22:04

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 13:04) *
My windows COM port settings just use default settings but I can check the actual setting values when I get home and let you know what they are so you can compare them to yours.

OK, these are the Communications Port settings on my laptop's native serial COM port (COM1):-Advanced Port Settings for COM1 shows the following:
My laptop is running Windows XP 32-bit.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 3rd February 2011 22:15

QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:06) *
Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1 Pin2 Pin3)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)

I'm not sure how you're mapping pins from the 9-Pin D-Connector to the 16-Pin OBD connector because the connections go through an interface circuit inside the OBD plug so there are no direct connection/continuity between pins on the 9-Pin plug and the 16-Pin plug.

The mapping on my 16-Pin to 3-Pin adapter cable are as follows:-

16-Pin OBD 3-Pin Alfa
--- 1 ------> NC
--- 2 ------> NC
--- 3 ------> NC
--- 4 ------> 2
--- 5 ------> NC
--- 6 ------> NC
--- 7 ------> 3
--- 8 ------> NC
--- 9 ------> NC
--- 10 -----> NC
--- 11 -----> NC
--- 12 -----> NC
--- 13 -----> NC
--- 14 -----> NC
--- 15 -----> 1
--- 16 -----> +ve Crocodile Clip


I only have the red fly-lead on mine and no black fly-lead.

Posted by: buellboy 4th February 2011 00:12

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 22:15) *
I'm not sure how you're mapping pins from the 9-Pin D-Connector to the 16-Pin OBD connector because the connections go through an interface circuit inside the OBD plug so there are no direct connection/continuity between pins on the 9-Pin plug and the 16-Pin plug.


Thanks for the COM port settings!

Interesting you say that there is an interface circuit inside! I though that was only on the USB to OBD cables. I just checked my pins from the 9 pin to the OBD plug using standard continuity! Googling OBD to serial also seems to suggest a straight connection.

Maybe that's where my problem is!


Posted by: GialloEvo94 4th February 2011 00:30

QUOTE(buellboy @ 4th February 2011 00:12) *
Interesting you say that there is an interface circuit inside! I though that was only on the USB to OBD cables. I just checked my pins from the 9 pin to the OBD plug using standard continuity! Googling OBD to serial also seems to suggest a straight connection.

Maybe that's where my problem is!

My RS232 cable looks identical to this one...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170597189004

You can actually see the interface circuit through the blue translucent casing of the 16-Pin OBD plug.

Posted by: buellboy 4th February 2011 00:38

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 4th February 2011 00:30) *
My RS232 cable looks identical to this one...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170597189004

You can actually see the interface circuit through the blue translucent casing of the 16-Pin OBD plug.

There lies my problem! I bought the following: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OBD2-16Pin-DB9-Serial-Port-Adapter-Cable-Diagnostic-/220603602507?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item335cffd64b

No wonder I couldn't connect! Cheers GE...feel really stupid now!

Posted by: GialloEvo94 4th February 2011 00:42

QUOTE(buellboy @ 4th February 2011 00:38) *
feel really stupid now!

And so you should do laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: buellboy 4th February 2011 01:01

BTW I tried the "simple" reset method as detailed by the document you posted. I definitely have the early TRW2 ecu, but I didn't get any blinking airbag lights when connecting the any of the pins of the 3 pin diagnostic airbag connector. My light is still ON! GRRRRRRR

Posted by: GialloEvo94 4th February 2011 01:12

QUOTE(buellboy @ 4th February 2011 01:01) *
BTW I tried the "simple" reset method as detailed by the document you posted. I definitely have the early TRW2 ecu, but I didn't get any blinking airbag lights when connecting the any of the pins of the 3 pin diagnostic airbag connector. My light is still ON! GRRRRRRR

Does your airbag ECU have a 10-pin connector on it and definitely has all 3 pins in the diagnostic socket wired up (not just 2 of them)?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 4th February 2011 20:49

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 4th February 2011 01:12) *
Does your airbag ECU have a 10-pin connector on it and definitely has all 3 pins in the diagnostic socket wired up (not just 2 of them)?

The plot thickens. Today I stumbled across some information that suggested it's actually the Becker airbag ECU that needs to be reset using the Pin-3 to ground method and not the TRW2 unit as I suggested in post #28 and #30 of this thread. So maybe the TRW2 airbag ECU can only actually be reset electronically with a diagnostic machine / software. One thing is known for sure which is that the TRW2 definitely cannot be reset with any of the available DIY software and can only be done electronically by a dealer (or possibly manually like the Becker unit although this is still unclear). A successful reset of the TRW2 by a dealer has been confirmed by someone on the UniDiag forum who paid to have theirs done after failing to do it themselves with DIY software.

It would still help to know how many wires are actually connected to the diag connector for the TRW2 and how many pins are in the ECU connector.

Posted by: buellboy 4th February 2011 22:50

Ok just checked....there are only 2 wires in the diagnostic airbag ECU socket and the ECU number on mine is 60631206

Posted by: GialloEvo94 4th February 2011 23:07

QUOTE(buellboy @ 4th February 2011 22:50) *
Ok just checked....there are only 2 wires in the diagnostic airbag ECU socket and the ECU number on mine is 60631206

OK, red herring then about the pin-3 to ground reset on yours but it still looks like you've got the TRW2 which will require a dealer to reset it. I guess you can try the software anyway once you get your new serial cable but the author of FiatECUScan seems to have already confirmed that the TRW2 airbag isn't supported.

Posted by: FLORIN 13th February 2011 21:06

I have an Alfa 145 1.6 Boxer and i find that i have the GM Rochester ECU, please help me if you know a software to check the ECU or how to connect OBD to Alfa 3pins and what ECU-scan to use? I try to use all the program you are talking about on the forum but no results.
Thank you.


Posted by: buellboy 13th February 2011 21:17

Uniscan/Euroscan WILL work with the GM rochester ECU but you will need:

1. A laptop or computer with 2x serial ports OR 2x socketserial PCMCIA serial card. I believe only socketserial will work under MS-DOS.
2. A UNISCAN/Euroscan box with software (the software is free)
3. A serial-to-fiat 3 pin cable.
4. The ability to boot into DOS and have a DOS partition OR a bootable USB stick to boot into DOS. I can make you one once you have sorted out the rest.

I found the best place IS NOT ebay as people do get different quality. Some people even found their uniscan box to be empty!

For the best quality and price try www.viaken.pl the shipping from poland to UK is around 25 if i remember correctly

Posted by: FLORIN 14th February 2011 16:58

so are you telling me that the ecu scan without the euro box is not possible????
why i need 2 x serial port???
did you try like this and it is working?
Thank you a lot .

Posted by: buellboy 14th February 2011 17:10

QUOTE(FLORIN @ 14th February 2011 16:58) *
so are you telling me that the ecu scan without the euro box is not possible????
why i need 2 x serial port???
did you try like this and it is working?
Thank you a lot .


The only systems, at the moment, that work with the GM Rochester are Fiat Examiner (at over 2000+) or Uniscan/Euroscan (100 which is the box and the cables but excluding the 2x serial port cards). FiatEcuScan *MAY* add support in the distant future but for now, those are the only two options.

Uniscan 1.83/Euroscan DOES work very well with it, but GM Rochester is a SELF-CLEARING Ecu so there is not much point!

You need 2x serial ports

Posted by: pixxypip 14th February 2011 17:16

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd January 2011 17:00) *
On the alloy top (CF1) engine I believe the Engine ECU diagnostics connector is actually in the black box at the back left of the engine bay along with the lambda connector but I don't currently have any pictures. I'm sure there is one on the forum somewhere but I've not managed to find it yet. When I do I will add it to the original post smile.gif

i can confirm this its a lil plug with a yellow rubber on it
plugs into a blanking cover conected to the bulk head in your first picture! worshippy.gif

Posted by: FLORIN 14th February 2011 19:36

Can you help me with the uniscan 1 83 software to download from somewhere ? and do you know from where to buy the box i need?

Posted by: buellboy 14th February 2011 19:45

QUOTE(FLORIN @ 14th February 2011 19:36) *
Can you help me with the uniscan 1 83 software to download from somewhere ? and do you know from where to buy the box i need?

WHY do you want to connect to your ECU so badly?

www.viaken.pl is the cheapest place to get the uniscan box and they will give you software, but no PCMCIA car with 2x ports OR MSDOS boot-up card.

Posted by: FLORIN 14th February 2011 19:54

because i have 1 x Alfa 145 1.6 Boxer with Rochester ECU and 1 x Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer with Rochester ECU, and they take me a lot of money to make me a diagnostic because sometimes the injection led from the cluster is on and sometimes is of...so i must to have some errors to find from ECU of the car,because i repair the cars.
So This is the reason ,that i want to have some connection with the ECU of my cars. biggrin.gif

Posted by: buellboy 14th February 2011 20:32

QUOTE(FLORIN @ 14th February 2011 19:54) *
because i have 1 x Alfa 145 1.6 Boxer with Rochester ECU and 1 x Alfa 146 1.6 Boxer with Rochester ECU, and they take me a lot of money to make me a diagnostic because sometimes the injection led from the cluster is on and sometimes is of...so i must to have some errors to find from ECU of the car,because i repair the cars.
So This is the reason ,that i want to have some connection with the ECU of my cars. biggrin.gif


See I'm not sure the ECU keeps a register of the errors, so you will spend lots and lots getting the ECU to connect only to get nowhere.

However, if you are still insisting on a ECU reader (rather than getting it to the mechanic for Fiat Examiner), I can set up a laptop for Uniscan for the price of the laptop + 220. That includes the uniscan box, cables, the Uniscan software,a 2xserial PCMCIA socketserial card a bootable dos USB drive.

Posted by: FLORIN 14th February 2011 21:15

so maybe you can help me whit some information : i have an interface VAG-COM on RS232 and a GALLETTO EOBD flasher on USB, tell me if i can use this for my car?
Maybe there is something to settings in the VISA 183 to use one of this?

Posted by: buellboy 14th February 2011 21:24

QUOTE(FLORIN @ 14th February 2011 21:15) *
so maybe you can help me whit some information : i have an interface VAG-COM on RS232 and a GALLETTO EOBD flasher on USB, tell me if i can use this for my car?
Maybe there is something to settings in the VISA 183 to use one of this?


The GM rochester ECU is NON-OBD compliant. The cables you have won't work with Uniscan 1.83.


Posted by: FLORIN 15th February 2011 10:30

ok... thank you for your help...and i think i will buy the euroscan box from www.viaken.pl, i'm from Romania i hope they will send it to me.

Posted by: buellboy 15th February 2011 11:26

don't forget that you will need 2 of these http://viaken.pl/sklep.php?lang=en&kat=15&prodid=47
if your laptop does not have 2 serial ports! ONLY this make and socketserial will work 100% in DOS. All the cheaper ones on ebay DO NOT WORK!

Best thing is to get an old computer with 2x serial ports. Here is a forum with help on how to set uniscan 1.83 up.

http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16629#p16629
GOOD LUCK!

Posted by: FLORIN 17th February 2011 17:55

Thank you a lot again...

Posted by: FLORIN 2nd March 2011 11:30

I'm coming with new details and a question : so... i bought the euroscan from viaken.pl....and i'm glad because it is working fine.
But, i have a big problem: it is working on my desktop computer that it's a big and heavy stuff, and the question is: if i can buy something like a PCMCIA 2xserial port or a usb-2xserial port emulator, to my laptop which is an Asus X51RL and it doesn't have serial port at all.
Thank you.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 2nd March 2011 11:59

QUOTE(FLORIN @ 2nd March 2011 11:30) *
I'm coming with new details and a question : so... i bought the euroscan from viaken.pl....and i'm glad because it is working fine.
But, i have a big problem: it is working on my desktop computer that it's a big and heavy stuff, and the question is: if i can buy something like a PCMCIA 2xserial port or a usb-2xserial port emulator, to my laptop which is an Asus X51RL and it doesn't have serial port at all.

Good news smile.gif Glad you got it working.

Looking at the specifications of your laptop it looks like you have one PCMCIA slot in it. If that is the case then you can use one of the "Dual" Serial I/O PC Cards made by SocketSerial (see http://www.socketserial.com/support/Cards/CFandPC%20Card%20Datasheet.pdf). These cards do not seem to be very easy to get hold of and most of the sellers seem to be based in the USA or Canada which probably also means expensive shipping charges. The dual cards also cost in the region of ~200 USD which is ~610 RON so very expensive. Some retailer links below...
As buellboy also said earlier, ONLY the SocketSerial PCMCIA cards seem to work as they are real 16-bit serial cards that work 100% in DOS mode. 32-bit serial cards DO NOT work as they have to use some kind of emulation in DOS which is not compatible with the EUROSCAN software.

Posted by: FLORIN 5th March 2011 13:56

thank you for your help...yes it is a lit of bit expensive, so i take from a friend a laptop that has 1 serial port on the motherboard(HP-NC6320), and i bought a pcmcia to serial port and i try to see if my DOS is seeing the 2 of the COM ports,and it is not, i think i must have some drivers for DOS. but i haven't.
So i want to see what's happens if i try to load whit DOSBOX,and the results are good until i want to see the ERRORS from my car or something else the laptop it is reboot's.
I try to opened the VISA program with the Microsoft PC Virtual machine but when i try to open the vstart from DOS it's reboot's the machine.
I'm so angry because i don't know other options, but if you have maybe a better VISA 1.83 program or a better PC virtual machine ,please send'it to me
florin_florin78@yahoo.com

I will came with news.
PS. i hope they will be good news. tongue.gif




Posted by: norro 14th September 2011 17:35

quick question regarding the cable...

ive got the 2 part cable now, i just need to know about the little crocodile clips.. are they safe to put on? know it sounds silly, but 12v through a USB... might pop the PC?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 14th September 2011 18:28

QUOTE(norro @ 14th September 2011 18:35) *
quick question regarding the cable...

ive got the 2 part cable now, i just need to know about the little crocodile clips.. are they safe to put on? know it sounds silly, but 12v through a USB... might pop the PC?

The 12v supply is only used to power the interface circuit that is inside the 16-pin OBD plug. The 12v never goes anywhere near the USB plug side of the circuit so nothing to worry about there smile.gif

Posted by: norro 14th September 2011 21:29

lovely jubbly! sooo just plug in and load up fiatecuscan and away i go! smile.gif

Posted by: Fuel 25th February 2012 01:46

Does anybody know how do I check if my OBD and VAG-COM cables are working well?

I have bought the cables... Have downloaded "Fiat ECU Scan" but I cannot diagnose any of the Italian cars in the family neither the Airbag of my 145 (the light is permanently on).
The software doesn't recognize the cables when I ask it to connect!

And this is very frustrating... sad.gif

I have waited for about 1 month in order to the cables arrive here in Brazil from China.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 25th February 2012 09:15

QUOTE(Fuel @ 25th February 2012 01:46) *
Does anybody know how do I check if my OBD and VAG-COM cables are working well?

Have you followed the FiatECUScan setup guide? There are some things thst need to be done first...

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/HowToUse.aspx

What operating system are you running and which cable did you buy (put a link to the eBay listing).

Posted by: Fuel 25th February 2012 13:33

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 25th February 2012 07:15) *
Have you followed the FiatECUScan setup guide? There are some things thst need to be done first...

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/HowToUse.aspx

What operating system are you running and which cable did you buy (put a link to the eBay listing).


I tryied to follow the FiatECUScan setup guide on my computer but it wasnt full succesfull once I didnt find
the Port Properties windows in order to do the modifications.
Searching on web I found a different way to do that (using codes) but Im not sure it was succesfull.

So... answering to your question, I was using a Windows 7 and I bought an OBD2 cable (the blue one) + the 3 Pin adapter (with + and - 12V conectors).


Now I am trying to install FiatECUScan on my fathers computer that runs Windows XP.
Lets see what happens!

Thank you very much for your prompt response GE!

Cheers

Posted by: Fuel 25th February 2012 14:25

Tryied to run FiatECUScan in my fathers computer.
Ive done everything on the FiatECUScan "How To Use" manual, and the result is:

CONNECTION FAILLED
No ECU response!
Check your cable and serial port settings!


Im gonna cry!
smilicon_cheers.gif



PS: When testing the cables, FiatECUScan gives me 101ms of lattency.
Which seems to be high. Right?



Posted by: GialloEvo94 26th February 2012 17:15

QUOTE(Fuel @ 25th February 2012 14:25) *
Tryied to run FiatECUScan in my fathers computer.
Ive done everything on the FiatECUScan "How To Use" manual, and the result is:

CONNECTION FAILLED
No ECU response!
Check your cable and serial port settings!

Can you not connect to ANY of the ECUs on your car from your father's XP laptop (engine, airbag or ABS ECUs)?

When running on Windows Vista or Windows 7, right click the FiatECUScan icon on your Windows Start menu, select "Properties...", and then select the "Compatibility" tab. Then tick the "Run this program as an administrator" option. If that doesn't work then tick the "Compatibility mode" option (at the top of the same setting window) and set the program to run in "Windows XP" mode...



For high latency issues, go into the FiatECUScan settings (F9) and select the "Interfaces" tab. Then tick the "High latency mode" box at the bottom. If that doesn't work or you keep getting disconnected then change the "KWP 2000 Timings" value in the dropdown box. Just try each of the Optimal, Fast and Slow options in turn to see if any of them resolve the issue...


Posted by: Fuel 5th March 2012 17:03

Hi GE!
Thank you very much for your help!
I really appreciate your attention. thumbsup.gif

I did what you told me to do and I could connect to the Engine ECU.
FiatECUScan says that my unit is not supported by the free version of
the software (as expected, once I have an 1996, alloy top engine 145).

However, regarding the airbag no signal!
It still can't read the Airbag ECU, as if it wasn't connected.

I could read over the airbag ECU that it is a TRW unit.

Still have no idea what is happening and why it doesn't connect to the airbag ECU.
Airbag light is on! sad.gif

Cheers

Posted by: GialloEvo94 5th March 2012 17:17

QUOTE(Fuel @ 5th March 2012 17:03) *
Hi GE!
Thank you very much for your help!
I really appreciate your attention. thumbsup.gif

I did what you told me to do and I could connect to the Engine ECU.
FiatECUScan says that my unit is not supported by the free version of
the software (as expected, once I have an 1996, alloy top engine 145).

However, regarding the airbag no signal!
It still can't read the Airbag ECU, as if it wasn't connected.

I could read over the airbag ECU that it is a TRW unit.

Still have no idea what is happening and why it doesn't connect to the airbag ECU.
Airbag light is on! sad.gif

Cheers

You may well be unfortunate enough to have one of the rare TRW2 airbag ECU's in your car which were fitted to some of the earlier cars. These cannot currently be reset with any DIY software. What part number is shown on your airbag ECU? If it has part number 60631206 on then it's a TRW2 airbag and not a TRW MY97 or TRW MY99 airbag which are the only ones in a 145/146 that are supported by FiatECUScan (and other DIY software).

Posted by: Fuel 18th March 2012 03:33

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 5th March 2012 14:17) *
You may well be unfortunate enough to have one of the rare TRW2 airbag ECU's in your car which were fitted to some of the earlier cars. These cannot currently be reset with any DIY software. What part number is shown on your airbag ECU? If it has part number 60631206 on then it's a TRW2 airbag and not a TRW MY97 or TRW MY99 airbag which are the only ones in a 145/146 that are supported by FiatECUScan (and other DIY software).


Yes GE!
You were right!
I do have a TRW2 airbag ECU (as all 145 exported to Brazil)!

I had though to search for a scanner from the 90's (93... 94...) at one Alfa dealer to have the problem sorted.
The problem is that almost any dealers have maintained these very old and obsolete machines!

So.... searching for a scanner from the time that my Alfa was new, wasn't an easy task.

Fortunatelly I know an Alfa dealer mechanic who have taken appart the scanner and lent it to me, so I could have the fault code
at the airbag ECU cleaned and the airbag light is now off!!! blush.gif

The scanner used was one Lancia Tester.
Take a look!
http://www.motor-talk.de/bilder/fiat-lancia-tester-zu-verkaufen-g884348/fl-tester-a-i202844700.html

Man!
The equipment is so bizarre that I got the impression that I actually drive something like a Ford T!!! laugh.gif

Lancia Tester is a scanner that you put inside it cartridges that you choose from the collection you have! laugh.gif
So... there is one cartridge for the 145 airbag... another cartridge for the 145/155 engine ECU...
other cartridge for the Alfa 164 ABS... one cartrige for Fiat Tempra engine ECU...
laugh.gif
There is a bag full of cartridges!!!

hahaha

I felt like I was playing Super Nintendo!!!

Fortunately it has worked well and my issue is now sorted!

Thank you VERY MUCH for the help!
Without your tips I would still think that I was having a problem with FiatECUScan.

Cheers


Posted by: buellboy 5th May 2012 19:29

For those that need a reset their alloy-tops (M2.10.x ECU)...the full version AlfaDiag software has now been released on a open-source free licence.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 5th May 2012 21:04

QUOTE(buellboy @ 5th May 2012 20:29) *
For those that need a reset their alloy-tops (M2.10.x ECU)...the full version AlfaDiag software has now been released on a open-source free licence.

I noticed this as well a couple of months ago. Now being made open-source effectively means it is not going to be developed any more going forward. I did wonder how long it would take before AlfaDiag was completely killed off by the existence of FiatECUScan. However the following statement on the AlfaDiag site did strike me as being a little confusing:-

QUOTE
all of the restrictions of the demo have been removed. The ecus in the demo are however limited in function

So, does this mean that because the open-source version is a demo-only version (with restrictions that were previously in place for running the actual ECU functions now removed for the open-source demo version), that the functionality of this open-source version is now more limited than it was in the earlier paid for versions? It sort of makes sense because I can see people who've previously paid 50 for a license being a bit pee'd off to find that everything is now completely free with full functionality. The comment seems to suggest that if you do want to re-instate full functionality you need to add the relevant code yourself to get the ECU functionality you want. I've got the source code but not started digging through it yet to find out if any ECU functionality is obviously missing.

Have you tried the open-source version on any ECU and does there appear to be any functionality missing that you know was present in earlier versions?

Posted by: buellboy 5th May 2012 22:32

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 5th May 2012 22:04) *
Have you tried the open-source version on any ECU and does there appear to be any functionality missing that you know was present in earlier versions?

I have tried it and it seems to work better than FES when connecting to my GTV mainly because the actual correct ECU is listed! I cannot comment on the differences between the open source and the paid-for version, as I never had the paid-for version.

I have taken a fleeting look at the source code but doesn't seem to contain any interesting classes

Posted by: GialloEvo94 6th May 2012 00:48

QUOTE(buellboy @ 5th May 2012 23:32) *
I have tried it and it seems to work better than FES when connecting to my GTV mainly because the actual correct ECU is listed! I cannot comment on the differences between the open source and the paid-for version, as I never had the paid-for version.

I have taken a fleeting look at the source code but doesn't seem to contain any interesting classes

I've just been trawling through the code and I have to take my hat off to the author as it's pretty well structured and written. The comms for a specific ECU uses generic code classes based on the type of protocol being used (KWP71, KWP81, KWP2000 etc.) and any ECU specific data is stored in XML config files (there is one file per ECU). However, the XML files provided for each ECU with the open source appear to be just skeleton files which are missing most of the definition data (fault codes, actuators etc.). Probably done on purpose so you actually have to do some work yourself if you want to be able to build a fully working program for the available ECUs from the open source code. You would need access to the comms specification for each specific ECU to be able to do this which are usually a confidential Fiat documents not available to the general public unless they've been leaked. As it stands, the pre-compiled version available for download probably had the full XML files loaded when it was built by the author but if you try and build a version from the available source code it looks like you will be missing most of the functionality for each of the available ECUs.

Posted by: bl4desman 27th May 2012 22:11

I have been trying to connect to the airbag ECU. I have the free version of FiatECUScan. I have checked the computer settings are ok and when I try to connect I have an error message saying Can not connect to ECU, check cables and Com ports.

The cables I used are the ones recommended in this thread from Ebay

If I run a test in the F9 Settings, I get this error.

VagCom/KKL

Testing latency with 200 bytes of data...
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
DATA ERROR!!!
Min latency: 1
Max latency: 16


Testing timers...
(The acceptable tolerance for results is ~5 ms)

System supports high resolution timer.

Testing timer with 1000 ms...
..result: 1015 ms

Testing timer with 250 ms...
..result: 257 ms

Testing timer with 750 ms...
..result: 765 ms

Testing timer with 100 ms...
..result: 110 ms


Anybody got any ideas where I am going wrong? I know I can't turn the light off with the free version. I just want to check it works ok before I pay 50.

Cheers, Matt

Posted by: GialloEvo94 27th May 2012 23:25

QUOTE(bl4desman @ 27th May 2012 23:11) *
I have been trying to connect to the airbag ECU. I have the free version of FiatECUScan. I have checked the computer settings are ok and when I try to connect I have an error message saying Can not connect to ECU, check cables and Com ports.


The airbag light reset is FREE with FiatECUScan for any airbag system so you won't need to pay for a license.

I assume you're using a USB cable and not an RS232 one? What latency timer value have you set your COM port to?

Also, as a side note, check if the TRW part number printed on top of the Airbag ECU is 60631206. If it is then you have one of the TRW2 airbag ECUs which cannot be reset using FiatECUScan (you have to use Trw2scan instead).

Posted by: bl4desman 28th May 2012 19:35

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 28th May 2012 00:25) *
The airbag light reset is FREE with FiatECUScan for any airbag system so you won't need to pay for a license.

I assume you're using a USB cable and not an RS232 one? What latency timer value have you set your COM port to?

Also, as a side note, check if the TRW part number printed on top of the Airbag ECU is 60631206. If it is then you have one of the TRW2 airbag ECUs which cannot be reset using FiatECUScan (you have to use Trw2scan instead).


I am using a USB cable. I think I have got it working on the engine ecu. However, my airbag number is 60631206. I have tried the TRW2Scan but I can not get it to work. It looks like they advise taking the airbag ECU out to work on a bench. This is something I am not sure of. I might see if I can get a 2nd hand one to put in and then play around with the spare. I have my MOT coming up soon so I need to get it fixed smile.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 28th May 2012 20:47

QUOTE(bl4desman @ 28th May 2012 20:35) *
I am using a USB cable. I think I have got it working on the engine ecu. However, my airbag number is 60631206. I have tried the TRW2Scan but I can not get it to work. It looks like they advise taking the airbag ECU out to work on a bench. This is something I am not sure of. I might see if I can get a 2nd hand one to put in and then play around with the spare. I have my MOT coming up soon so I need to get it fixed smile.gif

Looks like the airbag ECU being a TRW2 one is your problem then. I don't see how taking it out and working on the bench will help. Doing that would also mean dismantling all your airbags and setting those up on the bench too or appropriate value dummy resistors in place of the airbags (you would also need a complete airbag wiring harness to do this) because without airbags or resistors connected you will not be able to reset the ECU due to open-circuit faults being present without the airbags connected.

What error messages are you getting from Trw2scan?

I don't know if the main ECU connector on a TRW2 airbag ECU is the same as on a TRW M.Y.97 ECU (the later type of ECU but without the side airbag functionality that the M.Y.99 ECUs have) as I've never checked, but if it is and you're thinking about getting another airbag ECU, I would be tempted to just get one of the M.Y.97 ECUs instead because at least you can easily use FiatECUScan with that without any hassle.

Posted by: bl4desman 29th May 2012 19:37

It says that the software has to close as there is an error.

I read this http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-gtv-and-916-spider/336600-phase-1-trw2-airbag-diagnostics-solved.html and watched the youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji8ICPtW8Yc which all went straight over my head blink.gif

I'll look for into the TRW M.Y.97 ECU and see if I can find out what the plug looks like smile.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 19th August 2012 10:59

FYI, FiatECUScan is now called Multiecuscan. I can only think that there were possible copyright issues using the name "Fiat" in the title of the software.

You can still get to it via http://www.fiatecuscan.net but this just redirects you to the new http://www.multiecuscan.net website.

Posted by: Gianp 7th October 2012 22:47

Have any of you tried Torque Pro for Android devices? If I used the recommended leads to plug into the ELM327 bluetooth transponder, it should communicate with my phone. See the app here: id=org.prowl.torque&hl=enhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en

Posted by: IgoRR 23rd October 2012 10:17

Did anyone have problems with installing the driver for the VAG-COM KKL 409.1 USB to 16-pin OBD?



I constantly get the message "Driver install failure" unsure.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 23rd October 2012 13:33

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 23rd October 2012 11:17) *
Did anyone have problems with installing the driver for the VAG-COM KKL 409.1 USB to 16-pin OBD?

I constantly get the message "Driver install failure" unsure.gif

Assuming your interface cable uses the FTDI chipset (most do), then I suggest you just download the latest versions of the drivers direct from the FTDI website and try installing those...

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

Posted by: IgoRR 23rd October 2012 14:40




QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 23rd October 2012 15:33) *
Assuming your interface cable uses the FTDI chipset (most do), then I suggest you just download the latest versions of the drivers direct from the FTDI website and try installing those...

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm


I get the next error messages when I try to install the driver:

"Driver install failure" rant.gif

When I connect it, in the device manager I get "USB-SERIAL CH430" and a yellow triangle with an interjection,

under the description in the Device manager, I get "This device is not working properly because Windows cannot load the drivers required for this device. (Code 31)"

When I try to install the new drivers through the device manager, I get the message that the current driver is the best, with the driver you suggested(thank you).

Posted by: buellboy 23rd October 2012 17:50

Which version of windows? I would avoid vista and 7(to a lesser extent) and make sure that you are installing drivers as the administrator.

Sounds like you have something stopping the installation so next port of call is the firewall/antivirus, then the stupid windows safety crap.


Posted by: IgoRR 23rd October 2012 19:21

QUOTE(buellboy @ 23rd October 2012 19:50) *
Which version of windows? I would avoid vista and 7(to a lesser extent) and make sure that you are installing drivers as the administrator.

Sounds like you have something stopping the installation so next port of call is the firewall/antivirus, then the stupid windows safety crap.


I'm using win7 x64(there are x64 drivers available),

I don't have time to knock out win7 off my laptop and install a xp blink.gif

I think that the cable is broken...

Posted by: GialloEvo94 23rd October 2012 20:27

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 23rd October 2012 20:21) *
I'm using win7 x64(there are x64 drivers available),

I don't have time to knock out win7 off my laptop and install a xp blink.gif

I think that the cable is broken...

I don't think it's a broken cable. The drivers should successfully install (without any errors) without the cable even being plugged in because they support any FTDI chipset device that gets plugged into the USB port, not just that cable.

I've installed the FTDI drivers and I run Multiecuscan / FiatECUScan on my wife's laptop with no problem and that is running Win 7 x64.

Post up a screenshot of the driver installation error message you're getting.

Posted by: IgoRR 23rd October 2012 20:40









here you go smile.gif


btw, tried to install drivers on my desktop PC, same problem...

Posted by: GialloEvo94 23rd October 2012 20:48

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 23rd October 2012 21:40) *
btw, tried to install drivers on my desktop PC, same problem...

OK, looks like you've got a cable with the http://wch-ic.com/product/usb/ch340.asp and not the FTDI chipset so installing the FTDI drivers won't help. I suggest the supplied drivers are probably x86 drivers which you won't be able to install on an x64 machine. This would explain the error message you're getting. Is your desktop PC running a 32-bit or 64-bit version of windows?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 23rd October 2012 20:56

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 23rd October 2012 21:48) *
OK, looks like you've got a cable with the CH340 chipset and not the FTDI chipset so installing the FTDI drivers won't help. I suggest the supplied drivers are probably x86 drivers which you won't be able to install on an x64 machine. This would explain the error message you're getting. Is your desktop PC running a 32-bit or 64-bit version of windows?

The latest versions of the CH340/CH341 chipset drivers (which include x64 drivers) can be found at the WinChipHead website link below. Download the ZIP file, unzip the contents, then right-click the SETUP.EXE in the CH341SER folder and select "Run as administrator". Then install the drivers as before by clicking on the INSTALL button of the setup dialog. It looks like you also need to have the cable plugged in to be able to fully complete the driver installation so the installer can detect and confirm the presence of a CH340 chipset device attached to the computer.

http://wch.cn/download/list.asp?id=5

Translation from Chinese:
QUOTE
Version: 3.3

Updated: 2012-02-15

Software Description: USB to serial CH340/CH341 WINDOWS 32-bit / 64-bit driver support the WINDOWS 98/ME/2000/XP/Server 2003/VISTA / the Server 2008/Win7 32/64, Microsoft digital signature authentication, the computer end of the simulation Standard Serial serial device COM?, including serial port monitor debugging tools


Let us know it that works.

Posted by: IgoRR 24th October 2012 17:04

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 23rd October 2012 22:48) *
OK, looks like you've got a cable with the http://wch-ic.com/product/usb/ch340.asp and not the FTDI chipset so installing the FTDI drivers won't help. I suggest the supplied drivers are probably x86 drivers which you won't be able to install on an x64 machine. This would explain the error message you're getting. Is your desktop PC running a 32-bit or 64-bit version of windows?


On the CD i got with the cable adapter are x64 drivers, but can't install them.


QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 23rd October 2012 22:56) *
The latest versions of the CH340/CH341 chipset drivers (which include x64 drivers) can be found at the WinChipHead website link below. Download the ZIP file, unzip the contents, then right-click the SETUP.EXE in the CH341SER folder and select "Run as administrator". Then install the drivers as before by clicking on the INSTALL button of the setup dialog. It looks like you also need to have the cable plugged in to be able to fully complete the driver installation so the installer can detect and confirm the presence of a CH340 chipset device attached to the computer.

http://wch.cn/download/list.asp?id=5

Translation from Chinese:
Let us know it that works.



This driver installed like a charm biggrin.gif

Thank you a million. worshippy.gif


Now, when I test the com port in the multiecuscan I get this results. Is this ok?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/testp.jpg/


I will be able to try it on my Alfa as early as Saturday.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 24th October 2012 20:31

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 24th October 2012 18:04) *
Now, when I test the com port in the multiecuscan I get this results. Is this ok?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/testp.jpg/

You've got very high latency readings there on both the latency and timer tests. You want the min and max latency values to be as low as possible (ideally less than 10) and the "result" values from the timer tests to be within 5ms of the calibration value of each timer test (other than the 1000ms test on yours, the others are a long way out).

One thing you do need to do is to is go into the settings for the device driver and set the latency to the lowest value possible:-
  1. Open Device Manager
  2. Under Ports (COM & LPT) select the USB Serial Port for your cable
  3. Right-click and select Properties
  4. Select the Port Settings tab
  5. Click the Advanced button
  6. Under BM Options is the Latency Timer (msec) option which you need to set to 1
Something to be aware of is that you might not actually get proper latency results without the cable connected to your car. I have a cable with the FTDI chipset and if I try to run a test without it connected to the car I just get a timesout message instead of a list of test results.

If you still get latency issues after doing the above and the cable is connected to the car, the next thing to do is to try ticking the "High latency mode" option in the Multiecuscan settings dialog to see if that helps. If that still doesn't seem to help you can then also play around with the KWP2000 timings (default, optimal, fast & slow) in the Multiecuscan settings dialog to see which one works best for your car. It's just a case of starting with the recommended settings and then playing around with them until you hopefully get some success.

If you have high latency then you usually either won't be able to connect to the ECU or will just keep getting disconnected which can be extremely frustrating.

Posted by: IgoRR 24th October 2012 21:14

The problem could be that I am not connected to the car, so I am not getting the right latency's.

I did the 6 step tutorial, I set the Receive and Transmit Buffer from 14/16 to 1.

Allso, I tried to alter the KWP2000 timings, but in the end I got roughly the same latency values(1 ms random change).

I will test it with the car ASAP smile.gif

Thank you again for your help. worshippy.gif

Posted by: IgoRR 27th October 2012 10:27

OK, so I am now connected to the car, and the problem persists.

Getting the same high latency, and when I try to connect to the ECU, I get this error from the multiecuscan:


Posted by: GialloEvo94 27th October 2012 11:19

Have you definitely set the "Latency Timer" value to 1 in the USB Port device settings?




Posted by: IgoRR 27th October 2012 12:14

OK, I see another problem biggrin.gif

I don't have the same window as you do in the adapter properties.

Here is how my window looks like:


Posted by: GialloEvo94 27th October 2012 12:38

OK, that window is normally what comes up for an 9-pin COM port RS232 interface cable (I've got one of those cables too that I use with an old laptop which has a 9-pin serial COM port on). This means that your USB interface cable must have a PL-2303 USB-to-RS232 bridge circuit in the 16-pin plug head. The FTDI chipset USB cables don't have this.

You certainly need to set both the "Receive" and "Transmit" buffer values to the 1 (move the two sliders all the way to the left) so try that first.

Posted by: IgoRR 30th October 2012 10:10

Still doesn't work... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 30th October 2012 11:17

OK, I just did a bit more digging around and it looks like the PL2303 USB serial port interface doesn't support a baud rate of 10400bps that is required to communicate with an Alfa ECU. There is some mention that changing a registry setting might work (although no guarantee) but I can't find any information at all on what or where that registry setting is.

I suggest the easiest option will be to just get another cable that uses the FTDI chipset as these have been proven to work fine. Just ask the seller first if the cable they are selling uses the FTDI chipset before you purchase another one.

Posted by: IgoRR 31st October 2012 14:52

Thank you, I will try to get one with the FTDI chipset. worshippy.gif

Posted by: IgoRR 7th November 2012 11:14

@ GialloEvo94

I found a cable with a FTDI FT232RL chipset. Is this ok? Should I order it?

Thank you in advance thumbsup.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 7th November 2012 11:17

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 7th November 2012 11:14) *
I found a cable with a FTDI FT232RL chipset. Is this ok? Should I order it?

Yes...that's the one you want smile.gif

Posted by: IgoRR 21st November 2012 15:00

Finaly got the thing to work biggrin.gif

The problem was in the cable...

Here are my errors smile.gif

As I turn my engine on, the air temperature is -30 Celsius, but the outside temp. is ~ 10 degrees Celsius.

After say 5 minutes i get 18,8 degrees Celsius and stays at that point.

So I suspect that the MAF is dead?

And can the lambda have false readouts because of the false Air/Fuel ratio due to the false intake temps?





Again, GialloEvo94 thnx for all the help. smile.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 21st November 2012 15:38

Yep, looks like your MAF is fubarred. I would replace the MAF, reset the fault codes and then check again a week later to see if any fault codes have returned again. Sometimes MAF issues can cause lambda error codes to appear.

Posted by: IgoRR 21st November 2012 16:52

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 21st November 2012 16:38) *
Yep, looks like your MAF is fubarred. I would replace the MAF, reset the fault codes and then check again a week later to see if any fault codes have returned again. Sometimes MAF issues can cause lambda error codes to appear.



Forgot to say that the 2 faults comes back in about 3 minutes when I reset the errors.

I changed my MAF and lambda with my hands smile.gif

The MAF didn't last more than 1,5 years rant.gif

It was original Alfa Romeo,

but fortunately my lambda is working...

GialloEvo94, can you please tell me where can one buy the cheapest original MAF sensor? I remember you saying a web site, but I can't remember..

Thank you.

Posted by: GialloEvo94 21st November 2012 17:06

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 21st November 2012 16:52) *
GialloEvo94, can you please tell me where can one buy the cheapest original MAF sensor? I remember you saying a web site, but I can't remember..

Here you go...

http://www.vauxhallworldparts.com/vauxhall.php?partnumber=93171356

I've been running one of these on mine for the last 6 months with no problems. This is the cheapest place you will get them and they're on offer at the moment too (10 cheaper than I paid for mine).

Posted by: IgoRR 22nd November 2012 10:51

Thank you, currently I am unemployed and now I just have to get the money laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: samsagaz 30th January 2013 15:01

Exelent Post!

I will purchase one of the Cable because after change the Top Alloy Cover of my car the light of the injection are ON, (i cant beliave it) I just remove the cover and put the new one. After that change the r134a fluid and when turn on the car i get the light on!.

Btw, i will purchase VAG-COM KKL + Alfa 3-pin to OBD 16-pin adapter lead. is that enough right?

I checked at Ebay USA and i found lot of VAG COM KKL, but they say that are for Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat. That is the same that will work for alfa/fiat but just need to use the 3 pin adapter, right?

Will purchase this two

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170892691664
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170896479507

Posted by: GialloEvo94 30th January 2013 16:00

QUOTE(samsagaz @ 30th January 2013 15:01) *
Btw, i will purchase VAG-COM KKL + Alfa 3-pin to OBD 16-pin adapter lead. is that enough right?

I checked at Ebay USA and i found lot of VAG COM KKL, but they say that are for Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat. That is the same that will work for alfa/fiat but just need to use the 3 pin adapter, right?

Will purchase this two

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170892691664
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170896479507

The first lead is fine, the second is not as that one is just a straight through cable. You need one that has a KKL interface circuit inside the 16-pin plug. Also, that type is a DB9 serial plug type. Do you have a real serial port like that on your laptop (because most modern laptops don't)?

Those two cables are all you need (assuming the second one you get is of the correct type). Also, bear in mind that ECU diagnostics on the alloy top CF1 using Multiecuscan requires a software license (~70 USD).

Posted by: samsagaz 30th January 2013 17:00

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 30th January 2013 16:00) *
The first lead is fine, the second is not as that one is just a straight through cable. You need one that has a KKL interface circuit inside the 16-pin plug. Also, that type is a DB9 serial plug type. Do you have a real serial port like that on your laptop (because most modern laptops don't)?

Those two cables are all you need (assuming the second one you get is of the correct type). Also, bear in mind that ECU diagnostics on the alloy top CF1 using Multiecuscan requires a software license (~70 USD).


Thanks again for your help, will try to find the right cable, i will purchase an PCI card that have 2 serial and 1 parallel port, so will use serial as you say that are better than USB

btw, looks like usb are cheapest

Posted by: GialloEvo94 30th January 2013 17:07

QUOTE(samsagaz @ 30th January 2013 17:00) *
Thanks again for your help, will try to find the right cable, i will purchase an PCI card that have 2 serial and 1 parallel port, so will use serial as you say that are better than USB

If you've got a decent PC or laptop you shouldn't have any issues with a USB interface cable. Just make sure you get one that uses the FTDI chipset as the drivers for those are now pretty stable when used with Multiecuscan. I always used to use an RS232 interface cable on an old laptop which had a real serial COM port but for the past few years I've been using a USB interface cable on a modern Dell laptop with no issues at all.

Posted by: samsagaz 30th January 2013 17:11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220740933321
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320717161778
I think that i found a seller that have both but just USB :/


An friend of mine have an VCDS interface, is not possible to convert it to use it with alfa right?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 30th January 2013 17:40

QUOTE(samsagaz @ 30th January 2013 17:11) *
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220740933321
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320717161778
I think that i found a seller that have both but just USB :/
An friend of mine have an VCDS interface, is not possible to convert it to use it with alfa right?

Those cables look fine. The USB one looks identical to mine.

The VCDS interface is for VW's and Audi's and is an expensive bit of kit. I wouldn't want to risk trying to modify it in case I ended up ruining it. For the sake of 10 USD I would just get that one from Hong Kong.

Posted by: IgoRR 6th February 2013 15:48

Hello everyone!

Today I bought and installed a genuine Bosch MAF on the car. Of course now the car is going better and no messing arround in the the cold. Before I received the following error:

For the intake air temperature sensor, it first shows -30 degrees, and later at some point reaches 18 degrees and holds there.



Lambda integrator shows a too high signal and stores it as an error.




Furthermore, apparently the culprit was the maf, so I installed it, overturned errors, and hoped that all the problems are over, but however,

soon reappeared the error intake air temperature sensor, as before, at cold shows -30, later 18 degrees Celsius. Also shortly after min, two driving, again the error occurs Lambda sensor integrator.


Now follow the graph parameters, what is happening at idle and at 4000 rpm.

Idle:

ow the error occurs as soon as the error is reset.


The engine revs constantly varies generally between 800 and 840 rpm (because oflambd I presumea, later in graphs)

A graph showing the preferred and the amount of air supplied to the engine, linked to revolutions:

It can be seen that the sensor works nicely

Added to the previous graph voltage sensor air flow:

As far as I see it, everything is ok


Graph rpms and signal (in Volts) lambda probes:

You can clearly see that when it changes, ie jumps lambda value with approximately 80 mV to 750 mV and falls again, that is constantly varying min and max values ​​in the same interval and vary the engine speed. My guess is that the engine is trying to "adjust" to the lambda signal.


The following graph show the engine speed, the voltage lambda sensor, lambda lambda integrator and status:

We can see again the lambda voltage increase, with the Voltage grows the engine rpm, that goes with the min max values. A status lambda goes from poor to rich mixture constantly, which is logical.

Another graph in which it can be seen:



On the next graph shows a lot of parameters that tell the story mentioned above.



The following is a graph where the engine is running at about 4000 rpm

Lambda signal again jumps from min to max, and vice versa in circle. Air flow sensor works great, as far as I understand it. I do not understand the integrator reading ...

And finally one more charts of engine speed and signals a lambda:

It even works somewhat stable, but later returned to his old ...

Lambda was changed before 2 years, placed the original Bosch ...

Thanks to everyone for the advice to solve problem.

best regards

Posted by: IgoRR 12th February 2013 00:49


question:

In the picturem the pin no. 1 shows the temperature sensor, while it is physically on the right hand side under the number 8, I'd say resistor. Although it can be seen that there are also other hardware temperature resistors in the circuitry ...

Can I read out the resistance of the MAF if is not connected, ie, while not under power (12V + 5V)?

Is it then the resistance, ie temperature information that the maf sends the ECU?

thanks

Posted by: IgoRR 15th April 2013 21:03

I finally found the error...

On the main computer there are two sockets: A & B

On one of the sockets a pin that is responsible for the IAT was bent rant.gif blink.gif

Straitened it out,

and I have no more errors smile.gif

Posted by: GialloEvo94 15th April 2013 21:07

QUOTE(IgoRR @ 15th April 2013 22:03) *
I finally found the error...

On the main computer there are two sockets: A & B

On one of the sockets a pin that is responsible for the IAT was bent rant.gif blink.gif

Straitened it out,

and I have no more errors smile.gif

Well done for finding the needle in the haystack smile.gif I have heard of that happening before (on here I think) although it is quite rare.

Posted by: IgoRR 15th April 2013 21:36

It would seem logical that you can bend half or all of the pins and see that at the moment u press down in a wrong way biggrin.gif

But to just bend one...

I mean, if someone asked me is it even possible, I would say no biggrin.gif

There are 30 pins in a 1/2 square inch :S

Posted by: Richard_kf 9th May 2013 14:25

I've been looking through this thread but can't seem to find any where that suggest the best points to connect the red and black croc clips when reading the 3 pin engine ECU port on a 146 2.0 TS CF1.

Any suggestions please?

Posted by: GialloEvo94 9th May 2013 16:10

QUOTE(Richard_kf @ 9th May 2013 15:25) *
I've been looking through this thread but can't seem to find any where that suggest the best points to connect the red and black croc clips when reading the 3 pin engine ECU port on a 146 2.0 TS CF1.

Any suggestions please?

The black croc clip doesn't need to be connected to anything as it's just an earth lead and there is already an earth connection in the 3-pin plug. With the red lead just connect it direct to the battery positive terminal. You will probably need to extend the wire in order to do this if it's not long enough. This is what I've done with mine and in the extension wire I've got an inline fuse for extra protection but that's not strictly necessary.

Posted by: Matungo128 11th May 2013 01:18

Hello.

First of all, sorry for my English, not my language natal.nte all, sorry for my English, not my native language.

I was reading all the posting. Very interesante.stuve reading all the posting. Very interesting. Thanks for the post, I choose to buy the cable vag (blue).

Yesterday I arrived. And I'm like crazy trying to make it work. rant.gif

No that's wrong, but tried it on several programs and I can not run. blink.gif

In the FiatECUScan I can make it work for a few seconds, but it is disconnected. Try many things and can not be. Latency you run always between 0/1 and 3/6. (I put in the port latency 1) (And as I read the posting has to run under 10). Not so here could be.

Would anyone step something similar?

Thank you. worshippy.gif

Greetings.

Posted by: ChrisS 24th November 2013 14:34

Many, many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Today I got the airbag warning light on my blue 145 to go out without too much difficulty.

I used MultiECUScan on a Windows 8 laptop. And the cables linked here (USB)

My input would be to read this thread top to bottom and to read the instructions for MultiECU, especially the bits about setting up the settings for the USB port as a COM port and the changes that are needed.

And finally, for the avoidance of doubt you must power the RED little cable to the connector or it wont work, even for the airbag.... Otherwise the connection fails.

smile.gif superb thread and thank you to all.

Posted by: Umbi 30th October 2014 15:21

Good evening ... Escuse me for my English : Something of you have never tried to connect to a Bosch Motronic M2.10.4 (Alfa 146) for diagnosis ? Can you reccomend anything for use on Windows 7 64 Bit ?

Thank-you in advance

Posted by: alfizta 30th October 2014 18:45

I use MultiEcuScan registered version.
But try dnecudiag. I think it works and it's for free!
http://dnecudiag.codeplex.com/releases/view/97118

Posted by: Umbi 30th October 2014 19:59

OK ... Thank-you ... For cable what do you used or suggest ? But it's possible discharge a Software before install ? Or not ?

Posted by: alfizta 30th October 2014 21:06

QUOTE(Umbi @ 30th October 2014 19:59) *
OK ... Thank-you ... For cable what do you used or suggest ? But it's possible discharge a Software before install ? Or not ?


use cables as recommended in first post (kkl vag-com usb cable + 3-pin adapter)
http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=18638&view=findpost&p=163389

dnecudiag is installed online. it is impossible to download full software and install later...

Posted by: alf@75 11th February 2015 09:36

Hi.
Do anyone know if some of the VAG-COM KKL 409.1 USB to 16-pin OBD cables work with windows 8?

Posted by: alf@75 11th September 2015 07:33

Is it possible to connect a modern obd II diagnose to the 3pin to obd cable?


Posted by: MartinMKD 14th January 2016 17:05

Before I order anything, what information can I access on a 1.3 i.e. engine running an IAW ECU? Or is it like the GM Rochester ECU where you need a sh**load of equipment just to access it in the first place?

Thanks, this thread is a goldmine of information!

Posted by: GialloEvo94 20th January 2016 01:15

QUOTE(MartinMKD @ 14th January 2016 17:05) *
Before I order anything, what information can I access on a 1.3 i.e. engine running an IAW ECU? Or is it like the GM Rochester ECU where you need a sh**load of equipment just to access it in the first place?

Both Multiecuscan and IAW Scan2 support the IAW ECU used on the 1.3 boxer engined cars. Links for both of these pieces of software are in the first post of this thread. You will also need one of the cables/leads and a 16-pin to 3-pin adapter cable (also shown in the first post).

Does that answer your question?

Posted by: TheOneAnt 13th January 2017 17:59

Thank you for this complete write-up. Manage to connect to my Alfa 146 ti CF1's Engine ECU. But my ABS ECU is not Bosch 5.3 it is Bosch 2E.

Is there any software available to connect to Bosch 2E ABS ECU?

Kind Regards

Posted by: Nik44 22nd January 2017 22:09

I've also noticed that my old Elm 327 Bluetooth plug ( cheapy off ebay years ago) connected to the 3 pin to 16 pin adapter cable works fine on my laptop running multiecuscan via Bluetooth.

Posted by: Pantera 24th January 2017 02:22

I have connected my 145 phase 2 (Motronic 1.5.5) with a OBDLink LX blueetooth to my android device using AlfaOBD app.
I have tried others apps but none of them have worked (Torque, CaroO Pro, DashCommand).

Posted by: GialloEvo94 24th January 2017 08:18

QUOTE(Pantera @ 24th January 2017 02:22) *
I have connected my 145 phase 2 (Motronic 1.5.5) with a OBDLink LX blueetooth to my android device using AlfaOBD app.
I have tried others apps but none of them have worked (Torque, CaroO Pro, DashCommand).

The M1.5.5. ECU uses the KWP2000 OBD2 communication protocol which is now quite an old standard. It is likely that the developers of newer apps haven't bothered to implement the use of that protocol which is why they won't work. The likes of Multiecuscan and AlfaOBD have so that is why those apps work just fine.

Posted by: Pantera 26th January 2017 18:01

QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 24th January 2017 05:18) *
The M1.5.5. ECU uses the KWP2000 OBD2 communication protocol which is now quite an old standard. It is likely that the developers of newer apps haven't bothered to implement the use of that protocol which is why they won't work. The likes of Multiecuscan and AlfaOBD have so that is why those apps work just fine.


Great Info thanks!!

I've been researching other apps and I found these to be compatible with KWP2000. I will test them this weekend and let you know:

Nissan Gauge (Lite and Pro)
OBDkey Fault Code Reader
Hooptie - OBDII Scanner
Gauges OBDII Car Scanner

All these apps are Android apps.

Posted by: Onlyzen 11th November 2017 10:52

OBD-II systems provide access to the health information of a vehicle and access to numerous parameters and sensors from the Engine Control Unit (ECU). The OBD2 system offers valuable information, including diagnostic trouble codes, when troubleshooting problems.


Posted by: Muskie 28th August 2018 10:07

Hi all,
Just reading through this excellent thread and wondered if there was anything else I would need to be aware of in 2018? Does the advice here hold for newer latops running Windows 10? Are there other options available now in terms of reading and resetting codes? Thought I would check before I get lost in a world of frustration with cables and software.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Cheers,
Muskie

Posted by: Ganz 28th August 2018 21:50

QUOTE(Muskie @ 28th August 2018 11:07) *
Hi all,
Just reading through this excellent thread and wondered if there was anything else I would need to be aware of in 2018? Does the advice here hold for newer latops running Windows 10? Are there other options available now in terms of reading and resetting codes? Thought I would check before I get lost in a world of frustration with cables and software.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Cheers,
Muskie


I have just stayed with Windows XP in my laptop just so I can use FIATMuultiscan. I didn't want the hassle of finding out it didn't work in Win10. I have 3 OS on my laptop so I can use Linux on a day to day basis and WinXP when I need to scan for codes and erros on FiatMultiscan.

Posted by: JeremyG 31st August 2018 10:14

MultiECUScan works fine for me under Windows 10.

Posted by: Muskie 2nd September 2018 10:03

Thanks both. I'll give it a go on Windows 10

Posted by: se145 16th January 2019 16:18

Wow - been a while since i have been on here! Still got the 145 after years of storage, now trying to get it back on the road, need some help if possible please:

Have the dreaded airbag light rant.gif - on a TRW2 ECU. Have connected via MES, cleared all faults except this one:

05 - Passenger squib circuit

The indicated airbag circuit(s) have an open, short to battery + or ground, or a weak connection (open circuit). The fault may also be in the ECU or in the sqib circuit(s). Inspect wiring and connections for opens, shorts and weak connections


I only have the driver steering wheel airbag tho? no passenger or side airbags

FYI Steering wheel was swapped out 2 years ago, and airbag light came on (so delayed me again until now)
Possible bad connections in steering wheel airbag unit? but why would it say passenger?

Thanks Stu

 

Posted by: JeremyG 16th January 2019 16:36

That's odd - has your airbag ECU been changed (or your seats, for that matter)?

Just a thought - if you have an airbag ECU that expects seats with side airbags but your seats don't have the airbags... you'd need a resistor to replace the missing airbags. If these had been fitted but one had gone AWOL then perhaps that would explain your symptoms?

Also - be aware that "passenger side" may refer to LHD cars - ie, the driver's side in RHD cars. I know this has been an issue for GTV/Spider users running MES diagnostics on their airbag systems.

BTW - this question probably warrants its own new thread?

Posted by: se145 17th January 2019 15:14

QUOTE(JeremyG @ 16th January 2019 16:36) *
That's odd - has your airbag ECU been changed (or your seats, for that matter)?

Just a thought - if you have an airbag ECU that expects seats with side airbags but your seats don't have the airbags... you'd need a resistor to replace the missing airbags. If these had been fitted but one had gone AWOL then perhaps that would explain your symptoms?

Also - be aware that "passenger side" may refer to LHD cars - ie, the driver's side in RHD cars. I know this has been an issue for GTV/Spider users running MES diagnostics on their airbag systems.

BTW - this question probably warrants its own new thread?


Thanks Jeremy - great work on your car btw. Happy for admin to make this a new topic.

ECU is original. Did swap out seats about 10 years ago. But airbag light only faulted when the steering wheel was changed 2 years ago. Looking at the workshop manual airbag wiring - it does highlight a passenger airbag. Do cars with only a drivers airbag in steering wheel still have this passenger airbag wiring, but terminated with a fitted resistor?

Ref LHD/RHD I did think that. Last night I took off steering wheel airbag, took apart and inspected the connection plug, put all back together. I will check with MES tonight if that has made a difference. The cable was 'crushed' and bit, hoping this is not damaged causing the open circuit issue (see pictures - took yellow sheath off. Is there a solution if so?

Thanks.

 

Posted by: JeremyG 17th January 2019 18:42

QUOTE(se145 @ 17th January 2019 15:14) *
Last night I took off steering wheel airbag, took apart and inspected the connection plug, put all back together. I will check with MES tonight if that has made a difference. The cable was 'crushed' and bit, hoping this is not damaged causing the open circuit issue (see pictures - took yellow sheath off. Is there a solution if so?


I notice from the first pic that the back of the plug for the airbag connector has come off. Has it always been that way? Is it possible that the exposed terminals could be shorting when reassembled? Id cover that with tape when you refit it.

(And Im not sure why this would give you a passenger airbag error, but you never know...)

Its worth also checking the wiring diagrams in the Workshop Manuals section to see if they contain any clues.

Posted by: shpuncik 18th January 2019 14:16

if airbag ECU hasn't been swaped and there is only one bag for driver then must be MES mistake between DR/PASS side.

fault could be triggered by faulty connection somewhere or broken clock spring ring behind steering wheel. you could use 2.2 ohm resistor instead of airbag to test system

Posted by: se145 19th January 2019 14:39

Thanks for replies.

I tried again last night after re-seating airbag connector on steering wheel (btw yes the plug picture was taken with the cover missing when I was inspecting it, but I put in back together before putting steering wheel back) - the error cleared on MES, but reappeared 20-30 secs later?

This morning I re-plugged the connector to the ECU - same result, the error cleared on MES, but reappeared 20-30 secs later.

I looked at the attached wiring diagram, I definitely do not have passenger airbag wiring (removed trim and traced wiring) - so must be a PASS/DRV MES error as you say.

Couple of Qs:
1. if I disconnected the PPL-WHT wire to the instrument cluster - would this work?
2. do i need 2.2ohm or 3.3ohm dummy resistor for airbag connector test? why do this? to test airbag ok?
3. my horn still work no problem - so likely to be clock spring? like i said the airbag connector wire was crushed?
4. if i can reset other errors, likely to be ECU?

Thanks



 

Posted by: shpuncik 20th January 2019 12:45

QUOTE(se145 @ 19th January 2019 16:39) *
...
Couple of Qs:
1. if I disconnected the PPL-WHT wire to the instrument cluster - would this work?
2. do i need 2.2ohm or 3.3ohm dummy resistor for airbag connector test? why do this? to test airbag ok?
3. my horn still work no problem - so likely to be clock spring? like i said the airbag connector wire was crushed?
4. if i can reset other errors, likely to be ECU?


Have you tried to see what errors you get with driver's airbag disconnected? Is it the same as above?

1. No, it won't. Default state of airbag warning light is always ON with ignition ON, airbag ECU turns it OFF in case of no faults. So by disconnecting PPL-WHT wire light will stay ON and airbag ECU will have another error like "warning light in instrument cluster is open/short bla bla bla" or something similar. Same is with disconnected ECU - light stays ON.

2. Usually system expects around 2.2ohm resistance, you could use even 3.3ohm but some cars detect it as too high and trigger error so 2.2ohm is best bet. But you could safely try with 3.3ohm and see if ECU is fine with that.
Yes, resistors help identify whether it's wiring or connectors are faulty. You could disconnecto connector under steering wheel trim which goes into clock spring, put resistor there to see if error goes off, or instead of driver airbag.

3. If horn works it doesn't mean ribbon cable isn't damaged. To be sure use multimeter and test pin-by-pin from both sides

4. Doesn't look like faulty ECU. When they are faulty they throw you error code "01" with description like "eeprom or ECU faulty". Still got couple of them on the table waiting to be repaired.


Posted by: se145 21st January 2019 10:08

QUOTE(shpuncik @ 20th January 2019 12:45) *
Have you tried to see what errors you get with driver's airbag disconnected? Is it the same as above?

1. No, it won't. Default state of airbag warning light is always ON with ignition ON, airbag ECU turns it OFF in case of no faults. So by disconnecting PPL-WHT wire light will stay ON and airbag ECU will have another error like "warning light in instrument cluster is open/short bla bla bla" or something similar. Same is with disconnected ECU - light stays ON.

2. Usually system expects around 2.2ohm resistance, you could use even 3.3ohm but some cars detect it as too high and trigger error so 2.2ohm is best bet. But you could safely try with 3.3ohm and see if ECU is fine with that.
Yes, resistors help identify whether it's wiring or connectors are faulty. You could disconnecto connector under steering wheel trim which goes into clock spring, put resistor there to see if error goes off, or instead of driver airbag.

3. If horn works it doesn't mean ribbon cable isn't damaged. To be sure use multimeter and test pin-by-pin from both sides

4. Doesn't look like faulty ECU. When they are faulty they throw you error code "01" with description like "eeprom or ECU faulty". Still got couple of them on the table waiting to be repaired.


Thanks shpuncik. So the plot thickens. I tried MES to see what error I got when the airbag was disconnected, and now get additional error "04 - Driver squib circuit" (see below image) - which you would expect - but this then rules out the DRV/PASS mixup on MES/ECU?, and suggests my "05 - Passenger squib circuit" error is indeed for the passenger side (even though I do not have one, and looks like wiring is not present for it?). This also suggests clock spring is ok. I have a 2.2ohm resistor on the way, but looks like this will not help.

I had a relook for wiring, in case I do have the passenger airbag circuit, because the attached wiring diagram indicates cars should have it? With reference to the wiring diagram I could only see the wiring for the 3 pin plug, and connector G380 with PPL-WHT and ORN-LTB to the instrument cluster and fusebox - which looks wrapped in black after connector G380.

I did spot a yellow sheathed cable under steering column going back to the towards the fusebox. Thinking this is continuation of above, where the wrapped black cable gets a yellow sheath - but if not could it be the passenger airbag circuit terminated with resistor at fusebox? Long shot I know, but attach a photo of my fuses - all look as they should - or something extra in there?

Really scratching my head on this, really appreciate your help.




 

Posted by: ChrisS 21st January 2019 12:08

QUOTE(se145 @ 21st January 2019 10:08) *
Thanks shpuncik. So the plot thickens. I tried MES to see what error I got when the airbag was disconnected, and now get additional error "04 - Driver squib circuit" (see below image) - which you would expect - but this then rules out the DRV/PASS mixup on MES/ECU?, and suggests my "05 - Passenger squib circuit" error is indeed for the passenger side (even though I do not have one, and looks like wiring is not present for it?). This also suggests clock spring is ok. I have a 2.2ohm resistor on the way, but looks like this will not help.

I had a relook for wiring, in case I do have the passenger airbag circuit, because the attached wiring diagram indicates cars should have it? With reference to the wiring diagram I could only see the wiring for the 3 pin plug, and connector G380 with PPL-WHT and ORN-LTB to the instrument cluster and fusebox - which looks wrapped in black after connector G380.

I did spot a yellow sheathed cable under steering column going back to the towards the fusebox. Thinking this is continuation of above, where the wrapped black cable gets a yellow sheath - but if not could it be the passenger airbag circuit terminated with resistor at fusebox? Long shot I know, but attach a photo of my fuses - all look as they should - or something extra in there?

Really scratching my head on this, really appreciate your help.

Not much help, but I had a very similar problem with my blue 1.8 last year, after much head scratching the only thing left was a fault/broken wire somewhere in the underseat wiring on the passenger side. Given the MOT failure with loads of corrosion due to 'protection' applied by a 'specialist' I'm afraid I moved the car on so never found the source.
ChrisS

Posted by: se145 21st January 2019 12:12

QUOTE(ChrisS @ 21st January 2019 12:08) *
Not much help, but I had a very similar problem with my blue 1.8 last year, after much head scratching the only thing left was a fault/broken wire somewhere in the underseat wiring on the passenger side. Given the MOT failure with loads of corrosion due to 'protection' applied by a 'specialist' I'm afraid I moved the car on so never found the source.
ChrisS


Hi Chris - did you only have a drivers airbag too? - did you have wiring for a passenger airbag present? Thanks

Posted by: JeremyG 21st January 2019 17:00

What does the wiring connector on the airbag ECU tell you (it's at the bottom of the centre console, below the radio, if you haven't found it yet).

If you can see wires on pins 3 & 4 then (from the wiring diagram above) that would tell you there's a passenger airbag...

Also, what year/model is your car?

Posted by: shpuncik 21st January 2019 21:27

in this case most likely you have airbag ECU for DR/PASS. check connector at the ECU for PASS side wiring as JeremyG sugested. if it's missing I'd just connect resistor to PASS airbag terminals and that will do the trick

Posted by: se145 22nd January 2019 09:08

OK - so I disconnected my ECU connector and cut yellow sheath to see what wires it was hiding (see photos). My car btw is a 1.8TS 1997 (R plate).

I do indeed have 8 wires (not including earth). The colors seems to match the wiring diagram - two yellow cables must be for PASS airbag. As I do not physically have a passenger airbag, they must go to a point where they are terminated with a resistor? The two yellow cable then go together to a black sheath - this is what I need to find/trace to where it goes - any ideas?

 

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)