IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 2.0ltr Cams In My 1.6 Head, Its going......!!!!
gbzone
post 27th September 2012 15:18
Post #21 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 29
Joined: 26th June 2012
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 19:20
Member No.: 8,091
Driving: 145TS
From: Dunfermline, Fife



Relatively new MAF, but is it a Bosch or one of the cheap aftermarket ones? btw - anyone wants a cheap aftermarket one I have one they can have for the postage, used it a week and the symptoms seem very close to what your describing unsure.gif

This post has been edited by gbzone: 27th September 2012 15:19
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 27th September 2012 15:33
Post #22 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



mine is the genuine item....


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
GialloEvo94
post 27th September 2012 16:01
Post #23 | Print


Forum Administrator
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 9,490
Joined: 11th June 2005
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: South Oxfordshire, UK
Member No.: 954
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Lancia Delta Integrale Evo, SEAT Leon Mk2 FR+ TDI DSG
From: South Oxfordshire, UK



QUOTE(stevepx @ 27th September 2012 14:46) *
I'm no expert but isn't the MAF just there to monitor the air flow, tell the ECU what is happening and the ECU then modifies the fuel mixture.. Would it really make any difference as so far the MAF's i've looked at are for 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0.. There is nothing wrong with my MAF its relatively new. Just a thought really..

The 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 plastic top engines all use the same MAF (Bosch part number 0280218019). What happens if you drive with it unplugged?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 27th September 2012 16:19
Post #24 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 27th September 2012 17:01) *
The 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 plastic top engines all use the same MAF (Bosch part number 0280218019). What happens if you drive with it unplugged?




maybe i just needed a new maff then ?. but i never had a problem with mine just seemed to a lot on fuel so as you say. it needs a remap
but when i took mine to rally tech he told me it will run a bit better but not that much faster so he did not get my money blush.gif no3.gif
i think he had some think better to do on a satday


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 27th September 2012 18:17
Post #25 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 27th September 2012 17:01) *
The 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 plastic top engines all use the same MAF (Bosch part number 0280218019). What happens if you drive with it unplugged?


Haven't tried it with out the MAF to be honest I just figured the ECU is programed a certain way but with the longer duration cams etc it might need a little help fueling.

I'll unplug it and see....


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
The Wombat
post 27th September 2012 19:22
Post #26 | Print


1.3 8v
*

Group: Member
Posts: 89
Joined: 10th April 2012
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 19:20
Member No.: 7,572
Driving: Alfa Romeo 155, 75, 145
From: Huntingdon



QUOTE(stevepx @ 27th September 2012 14:46) *
I'm no expert but isn't the MAF just there to monitor the air flow, tell the ECU what is happening and the ECU then modifies the fuel mixture.. Would it really make any difference as so far the MAF's i've looked at are for 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0.. There is nothing wrong with my MAF its relatively new. Just a thought really..

Do you know if the 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 MAFs are the same part number (could look on EPER but not enough time). If they are, they pretty much guaranteed the 1.6 MAF would be fine. If they are different art numbers, there will be a reason, possible the diameter, possible the signal range from the MAF.

The other thing to consider with the MAF is the ECU itself. Fuel maps for the different size engines are probably quite similar, but it is possible that at the limits, they are somewhat different. For example, the 2.5 12v V6 ECU runs my 3.0 24v engine fine with some adjustments to the barn door AFM, but the ECU has a 6500rpm red line, and the map leans out at the upper end of the rev range because for the air volume that the 12v needs at higher rpm, the 24v needs to add more fuel.

Not sure if that addresses the exact problem, but hope its useful.


--------------------
Family vehicles:

- Red 155 Q4
- Black 155 v6 widebody
- Purple Fiat Multipla
- Red 75 3.0 Cloverleaf
- White 33 Permanent 4
- Red 33 Permanent 4 project
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 28th September 2012 08:52
Post #27 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



QUOTE(The Wombat @ 27th September 2012 20:22) *
Do you know if the 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 MAFs are the same part number (could look on EPER but not enough time). If they are, they pretty much guaranteed the 1.6 MAF would be fine. If they are different art numbers, there will be a reason, possible the diameter, possible the signal range from the MAF.

The other thing to consider with the MAF is the ECU itself. Fuel maps for the different size engines are probably quite similar, but it is possible that at the limits, they are somewhat different. For example, the 2.5 12v V6 ECU runs my 3.0 24v engine fine with some adjustments to the barn door AFM, but the ECU has a 6500rpm red line, and the map leans out at the upper end of the rev range because for the air volume that the 12v needs at higher rpm, the 24v needs to add more fuel.

Not sure if that addresses the exact problem, but hope its useful.



Yeah as per GE post, the part numbers are the same so MAF not an issue..

I think a remap is the only total solution, it's running at about 90% of what I think it's capable of and as said feels a little sluggish high in the rev range. Thanks for the information though it kinda confirms what I thought.... smile.gif


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 3rd October 2012 17:54
Post #28 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



Head Gasket failure today.....less than 200 miles since all the head work was completed, no warning what so ever pulled up at traffic lights and with in seconds temp guage was on 130! Pulled over immediately and turned it off. Car is back with my mechanic who is shocked and annoyed to say the least. Head to be stripped down to find out why it has failed. This is the last straw with my 146.... Feel like just weighing it in and finding something else....well unhappy at the moment...


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 3rd October 2012 19:04
Post #29 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(stevepx @ 3rd October 2012 18:54) *
Head Gasket failure today.....less than 200 miles since all the head work was completed, no warning what so ever pulled up at traffic lights and with in seconds temp guage was on 130! Pulled over immediately and turned it off. Car is back with my mechanic who is shocked and annoyed to say the least. Head to be stripped down to find out why it has failed. This is the last straw with my 146.... Feel like just weighing it in and finding something else....well unhappy at the moment...




join the the club m8
i felt like you are now. but once i got her up and run with help from a really GOOD m8 on here i started to smile once i put my foot down
is the guy who done the joby going to help out at all ?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Fin
post 3rd October 2012 22:26
Post #30 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 928
Joined: 25th March 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Up North
Member No.: 4,027
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Merc E300TD, Opel Omega GSi
From: J28 off of the M1



QUOTE(stevepx @ 3rd October 2012 18:54) *
Head Gasket failure today.....less than 200 miles since all the head work was completed, no warning what so ever pulled up at traffic lights and with in seconds temp guage was on 130! Pulled over immediately and turned it off.

Oh s**t... sad.gif
QUOTE(stevepx @ 3rd October 2012 18:54) *
Car is back with my mechanic who is shocked and annoyed to say the least. Head to be stripped down to find out why it has failed. This is the last straw with my 146.... Feel like just weighing it in and finding something else....well unhappy at the moment...

Did you have the replacement head skimmed, pressure tested and/or welded? Head gasket failure is fairly rare on these engines, but if the surface of the head is warped or damaged in any way and not repaired properly, the gasket will fail...


--------------------
Keep left unless overtaking - Use mirrors and signals when changing lanes - Keep within the white lines - Don't tailgate

Its not exactly f**king rocket science is it?


If you cut a horse in half, then bang the two halves together, you get exactly the same noise as someone riding a coconut!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 3rd October 2012 22:30
Post #31 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(Fin @ 3rd October 2012 23:26) *
Oh s**t... sad.gif

Did you have the replacement head skimmed, pressure tested and/or welded? Head gasket failure is fairly rare on these engines, but if the surface of the head is warped or damaged in any way and not repaired properly, the gasket will fail...



i had a over heating problem when mine wen't angry.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 4th October 2012 01:50
Post #32 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



The head was skimmed and had a small weld done so assume it was all done correctly, won't know much until the head is removed. Not sure what my mechanic is gonna do, if its his fault then I guess there won't be a further bill, if the weld has failed then I guess he will bill the engineering company.... Just have to see what he finds out but it makes me feel like I can't rely on the car any more I guess all I seem to do is shell out on this car at the moment......


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 7th October 2012 10:07
Post #33 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



Update....head removed and gasket well and truly blown!!!

We couldn't understand what was going on but seemed localised to cylinder 3...

Using some engineers blue on the head and mated it with the block to find some high (or low) points around number 3 cylinder!!!!! was not in contact with the block.........really really strange!! for piece of mind tried another JTS head and it mated flat and square with the block so we know there is nothing amiss with the block so some how the head is not true...... now my mechanic, who is an alfa specialist, said he has never seen anything like this.. can only summise that when the head was skimmed some how the engineering company have taken too much off the head around cylinder 3 to make it uneven...is that at all possible?? so head is back to engineers to be measured and checked and hopefully sorted out...what a complete PITA................. no.gif


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Fin
post 7th October 2012 19:31
Post #34 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 928
Joined: 25th March 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Up North
Member No.: 4,027
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Merc E300TD, Opel Omega GSi
From: J28 off of the M1



That's a bit odd. It depends on what machine they used, but usually you would use a vertical milling machine. The head would be bolted on to a bed and then would be moved around while the milling head takes off a fine layer, which as long as the head didn't move on the bed, would be totally flat and true. Maybe the operator didn't clamp it properly...


--------------------
Keep left unless overtaking - Use mirrors and signals when changing lanes - Keep within the white lines - Don't tailgate

Its not exactly f**king rocket science is it?


If you cut a horse in half, then bang the two halves together, you get exactly the same noise as someone riding a coconut!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
black 146
post 7th October 2012 21:24
Post #35 | Print


1.7 16v
*****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 3,368
Joined: 2nd January 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: norfolk
Member No.: 3,861
Driving: alfa 145 1.6ish
From: norfolk



QUOTE(Fin @ 7th October 2012 20:31) *
That's a bit odd. It depends on what machine they used, but usually you would use a vertical milling machine. The head would be bolted on to a bed and then would be moved around while the milling head takes off a fine layer, which as long as the head didn't move on the bed, would be totally flat and true. Maybe the operator didn't clamp it properly...




that's what i thought there was no way that they would go deeper on just part of the head as fin said. it's all bolted down
and do you think it may have bin torqued down in the wrong way and it happened when it got to hot ?. not saying the guy dose not no what he's doing but got a train'y on it?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 8th October 2012 12:09
Post #36 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



No idea fella's, could have jumped out of the jig when it was being skimmed or just locked in on a wonky angle or something, my mechanic again could have made an error but he said it simple wasn't flush with the block so even if he did make an error it wouldn't have cause the whole head to twist.. who knows, just gotta wait for the phone call to say what is happening......


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 15th October 2012 12:43
Post #37 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



So the saga continues!!

Have got my '46 back, its now running the original 1600 head which has been welded to make good but I now have the 1800/2000 cams in place (like Kirk) but ANOTHER problem seems to have manifested itself.. Only got it Saturday but there seems to be pretty much no hot air coming in through the heater vents, just a little warm so I drained down the coolant system and refilled it to make sure there wasn't any air trapped and still no good I changed the valve a few months ago so I know it's good..I also noticed that taking the cap off the header tank didn't result in the water bubbling all over the place leading me to believe that the water pump is now FUBAR..would I be correct with my assumption and how damaging is it to drive in this state?? GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Cloverleaf76
post 15th October 2012 13:39
Post #38 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,194
Joined: 29th February 2008
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
Member No.: 2,973
Driving: Alfa 145 Cloverleaf, Alfa 147
From: M25 J11



QUOTE(stevepx @ 15th October 2012 13:43) *
So the saga continues!!

Have got my '46 back, its now running the original 1600 head which has been welded to make good but I now have the 1800/2000 cams in place (like Kirk) but ANOTHER problem seems to have manifested itself.. Only got it Saturday but there seems to be pretty much no hot air coming in through the heater vents, just a little warm so I drained down the coolant system and refilled it to make sure there wasn't any air trapped and still no good I changed the valve a few months ago so I know it's good..I also noticed that taking the cap off the header tank didn't result in the water bubbling all over the place leading me to believe that the water pump is now FUBAR..would I be correct with my assumption and how damaging is it to drive in this state?? GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!


What temp shows on the gauge?
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
Fin
post 15th October 2012 14:00
Post #39 | Print


1.6 8v
***

Group: Regular
Posts: 928
Joined: 25th March 2009
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Up North
Member No.: 4,027
Driving: Alfa 145 QV, Merc E300TD, Opel Omega GSi
From: J28 off of the M1



QUOTE(stevepx @ 15th October 2012 13:43) *
So the saga continues!!

Have got my '46 back, its now running the original 1600 head which has been welded to make good

Mildly worrying! This is what I did with mine originally, it did actually last for 50k miles but let go when I raced a Porsche!

QUOTE(stevepx @ 15th October 2012 13:43) *
ANOTHER problem seems to have manifested itself.. Only got it Saturday but there seems to be pretty much no hot air coming in through the heater vents, just a little warm
so I drained down the coolant system and refilled it to make sure there wasn't any air trapped and still no good I changed the valve a few months ago so I know it's good..I also noticed that taking the cap off the header tank didn't result in the water bubbling all over the place leading me to believe that the water pump is now FUBAR..would I be correct with my assumption and how damaging is it to drive in this state?? GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!


If you disconnect the little pipe that goes into the header tank, you should get a bit of water flowing when you rev the engine. Re-fitting a water pump that could be suspect or has been subjected to overheating is a pretty stupid idea. Perhaps you should change your mechanic. If the cooling system is operating properly, it should be pressurised once it is at the correct operating temperature. If yours isn't pressurising then you have a leak somewhere, so check round all the pipes while the engine is hot.

As for the heater temperature and all that, what does the temp gauge on the dash do? Does the car get up to temp and stay there? Does it fluctuate depending on how fast or slow you drive?

I'd be inclined to look at/change the thermostat if you haven't done that already. Let me know how you get on!


--------------------
Keep left unless overtaking - Use mirrors and signals when changing lanes - Keep within the white lines - Don't tailgate

Its not exactly f**king rocket science is it?


If you cut a horse in half, then bang the two halves together, you get exactly the same noise as someone riding a coconut!
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post
stevepx
post 16th October 2012 12:30
Post #40 | Print


1.6 16v
****

Group: Veteran
Posts: 1,430
Joined: 21st January 2011
Local Time: 22nd October 2019 20:20
From: Southampton
Member No.: 6,258
Driving: 146 1.6 TS 16v
From: Hampshire



Ok, so the temp gauge is actually pretty good, gets to around 90 and sticks there, as soon as it starts going up the fan cuts in and with in about 15 seconds its back to 90 again. Just took the top hose off Fin as suggested and there is a flow of coolant, so I guess the pump is OK. Just very nervous about it at the moment following the double failure....I'll keep my eye on it and report back if anything else is a miss. The air temp from the heater is getting ever so slightly warmer, its definatley not as hot as before but maybe it will improve with time, it better with winter just around the corner. As for the engine performance with the new CAMS in place, yeah not has good as with the 1800 head but i certainly can feel a difference...wants to be rev'ed though as pretty gutless under 2500 rpm...... Thanks again guys


--------------------
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Go to the top of the page
View Vehicles
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22 Oct 2019 19:20