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> ECU Diagnostics (DIY), A Guide to Connector Locations, Hardware and Software Requirements
GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 10:46
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 29th January 2011 10:11) *
I can't talk to the ECU at all, it does not communicate with it.

Gio,

I've just discovered that some of our cars have an obscure airbag ECU fitted called a "TRW2". Cars with this airbag ECU only have a steering wheel airbag (i.e. no passenger or side airbags). The TRW2 airbag ECU apparently can't be connected to, read or cleared with any of the software currently available. The part number of the TRW2 airbag ECU is 60631206 (will be written on the ECU somewhere) so it might be checking if the one you have in your car is actually one of these. If it is then it explains why you're having problems connecting to it using software on your laptop.


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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 11:26
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Cheers GE, I haven't got the car physically in front of me at the moment so I will have to check later ( I would check on EPER but I'm in the middle of a drive partition in ubuntu and it doesn't have IE)

On another even more puzzling note...FiatECUscan doesn't want to connect to my engine ECU! I've tried posting a question on their forum but no-one has replied.

The funny thing is that I'm using top-of-the-range SocketSerial RS232 PCMCIA cards but everyone seems too be using the USB-to-serial cable, so there is no help available on good old fashioned serial!

I have checked my serial port by doing a loopback test whilst connecting pin 2&3 and my port is fine...I'm really puzzled now!


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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 11:39
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Just checked my spare ECU that came off a car of the exact same year and only one airbag...60631206....dammn! I have a sneaky suspicion my car is the same!


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 12:49
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 11:26) *
On another even more puzzling note...FiatECUscan doesn't want to connect to my engine ECU! I've tried posting a question on their forum but no-one has replied.

The funny thing is that I'm using top-of-the-range SocketSerial RS232 PCMCIA cards but everyone seems too be using the USB-to-serial cable, so there is no help available on good old fashioned serial!

I have checked my serial port by doing a loopback test whilst connecting pin 2&3 and my port is fine...I'm really puzzled now!

Have you been able to connect to any ECU with your setup? Maybe there is something odd going on with the SocketSerial PCMCIA card. I've got both a serial RS232 and a USB cable but generally just use the RS232 one. My old school laptop has a built-in 9-Pin serial port so it's a native serial connection on the laptop motherboard.


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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 13:00
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Not with FiatECUscan, but Uniscan 1.83 has been fine. Also the loopback test on the RS232 works fine...I still don't know to what baud rate i need to set my COM port to + if it needs DTC, flow control and other fancy things!


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 13:04
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:00) *
I still don't know to what baud rate i need to set my COM port to + if it needs DTC, flow control and other fancy things!

My windows COM port settings just use default settings but I can check the actual setting values when I get home and let you know what they are so you can compare them to yours.


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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 13:06
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Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1¤ Pin2¤¦ Pin3¤)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 13:16
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:06) *
Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1¤ Pin2¤¦ Pin3¤)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)

Will do.

RE your airbag ECU. Just managed to dig up some more information on the TRW2. If it is a TRW2 then it appears that it may have 3 wires going to the 3-pin diagnostic connector socket (the TRW M.Y.97 and M.Y.99 only have 2 wires going to that connector). If it does then it seems that all you need to do is to connect pin 3 in the diagnostic connector socket to a ground point anywhere on the car and it will reset the airbag light. Give that a go and let us know if it works smile.gif


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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 13:31
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 13:16) *
RE your airbag ECU. Just managed to dig up some more information on the TRW2. If it is a TRW2 then it appears that it may have 3 wires going to the 3-pin diagnostic connector socket (the TRW M.Y.97 and M.Y.99 only have 2 wires going to that connector). If it does then it seems that all you need to do is to connect pin 3 in the diagnostic connector socket to a ground point anywhere on the car and it will reset the airbag light. Give that a go and let us know if it works smile.gif

I assume that's with the power on? Pin 3 is the pin which is "on its own" ...i.e separated by a little tab as per my diagram


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 14:22
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:31) *
I assume that's with the power on? Pin 3 is the pin which is "on its own" ...i.e separated by a little tab as per my diagram

Yes, you need the ignition switched on to the first click ("MAR") positition. I'm not sure which pin on the diagnostics connector is number 3. There is probably a "1" moulded into the plug next to pin number 1 which would make the pin at the other end number 3 but without having a plug in front of me I couldn't say for sure. See the following attachment for the full TRW2 airbag diagnosis / reset procedure and wiring diagram (click pictures for a full size view)...

Attached Image

Attached Image


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IgoRR
post 3rd February 2011 15:26
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People who use the diagnostics with USB connection, do you have any problems?

btw what to do with the red and black clamp with one of the cables?

thnx coolio.gif
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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 15:34
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QUOTE(IgoRR @ 3rd February 2011 15:26) *
People who use the diagnostics with USB connection, do you have any problems?

btw what to do with the red and black clamp with one of the cables?

When using the USB cables you can get more frequent connection drop-outs than you do with RS232. This is why I use the RS232 interface whenever possible (i.e. on laptops which have a 9-pin serial port).

The red fly-lead clips to the positive terminal of the battery and the black fly-lead clips to the negative terminal of tha battery although you don't actually need to use the black fly-lead because one of the 3 pins in the ECU diagnostics connector is a negative connection (there is no positive connection in the diag connector so you always need to use the red fly-lead).


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IgoRR
post 3rd February 2011 15:44
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 16:34) *
When using the USB cables you can get more frequent connection drop-outs than you do with RS232. This is why I use the RS232 interface whenever possible (i.e. on laptops which have a 9-pin serial port).

The red fly-lead clips to the positive terminal of the battery and the black fly-lead clips to the negative terminal of tha battery although you don't actually need to use the black fly-lead because one of the 3 pins in the ECU diagnostics connector is a negative connection (there is no positive connection in the diag connector so you always need to use the red fly-lead).


Thank you very much.
I thought that the clamps were used for powering. Thnx for the tip

With USB you can normaly diagnose the car/air bag/etc, you just don't get real time measures of eg. engine speed?
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buellboy
post 3rd February 2011 15:45
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looking at that second diagram it looks like the K-line is connected to pin 4 of the ECU which means on my diagram is PIN3.

Given that the manual states the need to short out pin 3, I highly doubt this would be referring to the K-line. In all probability then the fiat 3 pin is connector is:

Male plug:

L-Line ---G---- K-Line
( Pin3¤ Pin2¤¦ Pin1¤ ) OR (Pin1¤¦Pin2¤ Pin3¤)

The important thing here is to have a look at the safety plastic separator tag| (more compelling reason as to not short out the K-line)

This post has been edited by buellboy: 3rd February 2011 15:47


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 16:07
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 15:45) *
The important thing here is to have a look at the safety plastic separator tag| (more compelling reason as to not short out the K-line)

There is no "L" line as such, the 3rd pin is just a status feed connection. You shouldn't be able to do any damage by shorting the K-line to ground because it's just a comms line and by doing so you'll just be setting it to a permanant "low" state which won't do anything. So, you should be able to try grounding both of the outer pins in turn to see which one triggers the diagnosis/reset procedure without the risk of damaging the ECU if you happen to choose the wrong pin on your first attempt.


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 22:04
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 13:04) *
My windows COM port settings just use default settings but I can check the actual setting values when I get home and let you know what they are so you can compare them to yours.

OK, these are the Communications Port settings on my laptop's native serial COM port (COM1):-
  • Bits per second: 9600
  • Data Bits: 8
  • Parity: None
  • Stop bits: 1
  • Flow control: None
Advanced Port Settings for COM1 shows the following:
  • Use FIFO buffers (requires 16550 compatible UART): Enabled
  • Receive Buffer: High (14)
  • Transmit Buffer: High (16)

My laptop is running Windows XP 32-bit.


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GialloEvo94
post 3rd February 2011 22:15
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 3rd February 2011 13:06) *
Could you also check the cable connection? My is as follows:

Serial 9-pin | OBD | Fiat 3 Pin Looking at it with the pin safety tab on the right, (Pin1¤ Pin2¤¦ Pin3¤)

4 ============> 7 ========>Pin 3 (K-line?)
1=============> 5 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
2=============> 4 ========>Pin 2 (Middle pin) + Black crocodile clip (not all fiat 3 pin cables have this)
8=============> 15 ========>Pin 1 (L-line?)
9=============> 16 ========>Red crocodile clip (Should i be worried about passing 12V into my card?)

I'm not sure how you're mapping pins from the 9-Pin D-Connector to the 16-Pin OBD connector because the connections go through an interface circuit inside the OBD plug so there are no direct connection/continuity between pins on the 9-Pin plug and the 16-Pin plug.

The mapping on my 16-Pin to 3-Pin adapter cable are as follows:-

16-Pin OBD 3-Pin Alfa
--- 1 ------> NC
--- 2 ------> NC
--- 3 ------> NC
--- 4 ------> 2
--- 5 ------> NC
--- 6 ------> NC
--- 7 ------> 3
--- 8 ------> NC
--- 9 ------> NC
--- 10 -----> NC
--- 11 -----> NC
--- 12 -----> NC
--- 13 -----> NC
--- 14 -----> NC
--- 15 -----> 1
--- 16 -----> +ve Crocodile Clip


I only have the red fly-lead on mine and no black fly-lead.


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buellboy
post 4th February 2011 00:12
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 3rd February 2011 22:15) *
I'm not sure how you're mapping pins from the 9-Pin D-Connector to the 16-Pin OBD connector because the connections go through an interface circuit inside the OBD plug so there are no direct connection/continuity between pins on the 9-Pin plug and the 16-Pin plug.


Thanks for the COM port settings!

Interesting you say that there is an interface circuit inside! I though that was only on the USB to OBD cables. I just checked my pins from the 9 pin to the OBD plug using standard continuity! Googling OBD to serial also seems to suggest a straight connection.

Maybe that's where my problem is!



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GialloEvo94
post 4th February 2011 00:30
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QUOTE(buellboy @ 4th February 2011 00:12) *
Interesting you say that there is an interface circuit inside! I though that was only on the USB to OBD cables. I just checked my pins from the 9 pin to the OBD plug using standard continuity! Googling OBD to serial also seems to suggest a straight connection.

Maybe that's where my problem is!

My RS232 cable looks identical to this one...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170597189004

You can actually see the interface circuit through the blue translucent casing of the 16-Pin OBD plug.


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buellboy
post 4th February 2011 00:38
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QUOTE(GialloEvo94 @ 4th February 2011 00:30) *
My RS232 cable looks identical to this one...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170597189004

You can actually see the interface circuit through the blue translucent casing of the 16-Pin OBD plug.

There lies my problem! I bought the following: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OBD2-16Pin-DB9-Seria...=item335cffd64b

No wonder I couldn't connect! Cheers GE...feel really stupid now!


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