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> Boot release override, At last
dante giacosa
post 24th February 2019 22:27
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Does this annoy anybody else?

I'm all for 'driving the car as it was intended'- i.e.- the driver doesn't need a cup-holder when they drive- because they just DRIVE and all that.
In other words- accepting the design-philosophies behind the ergonomics and functionality.

But- having to turn the engine off to unlock the boot; is a bridge too far! Once I'm running the engine- I don't like having to turn it off; until I need to. Mechanical-sympathy and all that! (Let alone battery-kindness)

I am creeping up on the solution. Watch this space.






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donutty
post 25th February 2019 09:09
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 24th February 2019 22:27) *
Does this annoy anybody else?

I'm all for 'driving the car as it was intended'- i.e.- the driver doesn't need a cup-holder when they drive- because they just DRIVE and all that.
In other words- accepting the design-philosophies behind the ergonomics and functionality.

But- having to turn the engine off to unlock the boot; is a bridge too far! Once I'm running the engine- I don't like having to turn it off; until I need to. Mechanical-sympathy and all that! (Let alone battery-kindness)

I am creeping up on the solution. Watch this space.


I once thought that was an intermittent fault, until I noticed that it only opens with the engine off wink.gif

Suppose it makes sense, otherwise flying down the motorway it may turn into a Wacky-Races / James-Bond style booby-trap dispenser!!


Can't you just remove the relay and bridge the two appropriate pins in the socket, so that the solenoid to button circuit get power all of the time? Ah, but the button is acting on the earth...

This post has been edited by donutty: 25th February 2019 09:13
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JeremyG
post 25th February 2019 11:06
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 24th February 2019 22:27) *
Does this annoy anybody else?

I'm all for 'driving the car as it was intended'- i.e.- the driver doesn't need a cup-holder when they drive- because they just DRIVE and all that.
In other words- accepting the design-philosophies behind the ergonomics and functionality.

But- having to turn the engine off to unlock the boot; is a bridge too far! Once I'm running the engine- I don't like having to turn it off; until I need to. Mechanical-sympathy and all that! (Let alone battery-kindness)

I am creeping up on the solution. Watch this space.


Yeah, it is annoying - and an easy solution would be welcomed!
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dante giacosa
post 25th February 2019 12:39
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Further to donutty's concerns (less of a concern on the 146.gif )

I wonder what it would take for a handbrake-interlock on the over-ride...

naughty.gif
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JeremyG
post 25th February 2019 14:28
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Just been looking at that wiring diagram, too.

I think you're right - you do need to get a permanent 12V line to connector 87 (or 86) on the luggage compartment relay I52.

(Would it be wise also to disconnect the switched feed from the power window relay I12 to avoid confusing the power windows?)

I guess I12 is acting as an either-or switch for power windows or boot lock, depending on whether the ignition is on or off.

Where is I52 - attached to the fusebox?
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dante giacosa
post 25th February 2019 14:36
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okay-

I've got the basic design.

An additional relay receives the (+) coil feed from the ignition-switched fusebox output A5 (like relay I12) and the same fused (+) input from the power-windows fuse G310. The output side of the additional relay taps back into the feed-line for the boot-release relay I52.

The additional relay (coil) is brought in by a tap from the handbrake-switch H1 which is a (-) feed.

When you pull the handbrake; this additional relay engages to provide a positive line to the I52 boot-release relay. If you pressed the release switch it would actuate.

I haven't drawn it very well, with relation to the handbrake-switch H1 (my drawing suggests H1 directly wires to the additional relay- it won't as such)




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dante giacosa
post 25th February 2019 14:41
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sorry Jeremy- I think we might have typed 'over' each other there-

I am assuming both I12 & I52 are above the fusebox on a bracket- there's a few relays blowing around up there- the access is good; most of that trim comes off; I'll have a look tonight.

Yes- I think the power-window relay I12 is an 'either/or' switch for the boot-release.


I wouldn't want to mess with the switched line to I12; the power-windows stuff can all just work by itself. I would always prefer to add additional (removable) functionality- rather than remove or modify what is already there to get the result.
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JeremyG
post 25th February 2019 15:03
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 25th February 2019 14:41) *
sorry Jeremy- I think we might have typed 'over' each other there-

I am assuming both I12 & I52 are above the fusebox on a bracket- there's a few relays blowing around up there- the access is good; most of that trim comes off; I'll have a look tonight.

Yes- I think the power-window relay I12 is an 'either/or' switch for the boot-release.
I wouldn't want to mess with the switched line to I12; the power-windows stuff can all just work by itself. I would always prefer to add additional (removable) functionality- rather than remove or modify what is already there to get the result.


I like the idea of using the handbrake switch to enable the boot-release - nice!
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dante giacosa
post 25th February 2019 15:07
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yeah-

it could be; I was thinking about donutty's comment


you could still actuate it at motorway speeds of course- you'd just have to pull the handbrake a bit too!

I'll have a look at it tonight and report back
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dante giacosa
post 25th February 2019 22:00
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Done!

Well; not quite- but I've successfully identified I12 & I52 and also the junction for the handbrake cable G73 (?)- sorry- I've left the schematics in the car.

All necessary lines are in place and connected- I just need to dig out a FIAT/Alfa relay base and make off the lines into it.

I'll go into greater detail with pictures in the morning

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 26th February 2019 09:22
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shpuncik
post 26th February 2019 01:07
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when I encountered this boot release logic on my Boxer I thought it was another weird Italian way of doing things biggrin.gif on my JTD they droped boot release button and use handle with cable next to driver seat like in 156.

back to topic - it's enough to disconnect wire from I12 relay on 87a pin and connect it to permanent positive (battery) and boot release will work with or without ignition in MAR position.
I'd just add fuse, 10 amp should be enough for release actuator.
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dante giacosa
post 26th February 2019 09:30
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alright-

having removed the lower-dash-trim on the outside of the steering column-

the first job was to establish the white/black line from the handbrake. this line goes to ground when the handbrake is pulled and brings on the light on the dash (as well as having a feed to the ABS unit, I see!)

It passes through connector G73 on pin 10; and is mounted on a bracket, next the relay-group above the fusebox. (there are three pass-through wiring connectors here; of which G73 is the middle one)

I looked at continuity to the door-check strap to establish a connection when the handbrake is pulled. This confirmed the line. I then used a 3M scotchlock-connector to tap a white/black line into this line. The wiring ABOVE bracket is going to the dash & ABS unit; the wiring BELOW the bracket comes from the car & handbrake. I tapped below the bracket.

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 26th February 2019 09:40
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dante giacosa
post 26th February 2019 09:37
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Next up was to establish relays I12 & I52.

as it happens these are one above the other, with I12 being the yellow one underneath.

Wiring-colours on the rear of both tied into the schematics perfectly.


If I pull out I52, then I12 doesn't operate when the boot-release switch is pressed; confirming functionality.

(excuse my grotty hands- I'll never be a hand-model)

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 26th February 2019 10:04
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dante giacosa
post 26th February 2019 09:50
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from I52;

I tapped a red (permanent (+)) and an orange/white (ignition-switched (+)) line

and then from I12;

a white/red which is the feed to the boot-release relay (from I52)




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dante giacosa
post 26th February 2019 10:02
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yes Valdas-

you're quite right- a single permanent positive line would have done the trick, and that's what I planned initially; but I LOVE the idea of hidden additional functionality; within the existing ergonomics, you know!?

What 'should' happen now, is that the permanent-positive feed line (red) for the electric windows which arrives at I52, is tapped to a new relay as a switched feed.. The ignition-switched (+) coil-line for I52 (orange-white) is also tapped to the new relay as a (+) coil-line. The handbrake-switched ground-line (white/black) is tapped from connector G73 pin 10 and will be the (-) coil-line for the new relay.
And a new line is tapped from the output of the new relay (white/red) to feed the feed-line of relay I12.

When the car is running; the new relay will have an ignition-switched positive voltage present at the (+) coil terminal. It will also have a permanent positive voltage present at it's switched input.
When you pull the handbrake; a negative will be presented to the (-) coil terminal of the new relay and it will engage; connecting the permanent positive down to the boot release relay I12.

If you were to press the boot-release button; I12 would engage and actuate the boot lock.


Or- the whole thing will catch fire and burn to the ground- watch this space!!



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JeremyG
post 26th February 2019 13:54
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 26th February 2019 10:02) *
If you were to press the boot-release button; I12 would engage and actuate the boot lock.
Or- the whole thing will catch fire and burn to the ground- watch this space!!


Excellent work! Let's hope for the former...
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dante giacosa
post 28th February 2019 18:40
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(Thankyou)

Okay! It works!

I was up at my local Alfa-specialist yesterday, and managed to 'borrow' a relay-base and some wiring from a scrap 156; and last night set about soldering it into the additional cabling I have added to the 146.

My preferred course of action, in these instances, is to attempt to replicate a factory-install; and as such; genuine FIAT / Alfa bases are very valuable to me.
However, although I spent an hour removing the relay-base socket contacts from the base, and prising them open, removing the old cable and tinning them to accept new cables; it didn't go very well. Three things conspired against me.

Firstly: it turns out I had sourced a nonstandard relay base- I thought; you either have those smaller red rectangular relays (like on the BBoB) or larger standard square ones, and that I had sourced a larger square one. Wrong!
It was some kind of 'power' relay and incorporates massive pin 30 & 87 pins.
Never mind (I thought) I'll just roll with it.

Secondly- it's a poor workman who blames his tools, but it did not have the right soldering iron to get a result. I solder for a living, so I can't go into too much detail on this- or I will have to change my name and go into hiding.
Anyway- I got 'a result' of sorts.

Thirdly- it turned out the plastic base I had robbed, had totally sheared-off mounting lugs! And wouldn't actually slot into, and hold itself against the other relays after all!!!


On a more positive note- I was delighted to find that 'WANDER FUSE G310' which is listed as green and 30A, and provides permanent (+) for relay I52, was easily identified where the diagram said it would be. I pulled this to tap the red feed line to pin 30 on my new relay.



This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 28th February 2019 18:49
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Ganz
post 2nd March 2019 22:33
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Great Mod Dante cuz I absolutely hate having to turn the engine off when dropping people off and they have to take their stuff out the boot. High praise mate thumbup.gif clapping.gif

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dante giacosa
post 3rd March 2019 10:38
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thankyou Ganz- that's very kind;

Do you think it merits a wider how-to guide..?

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JeremyG
post 3rd March 2019 23:53
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 3rd March 2019 10:38) *
thankyou Ganz- that's very kind;

Do you think it merits a wider how-to guide..?


Yes!
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