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> 146 undertray fun, Join me, on a magical voyage!
dante giacosa
post 1st December 2018 11:37
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Can anyone say (in the first instance) if they have ever had a 146.gif with an undertray fitted?

Mark- you might be uniquely placed to answer this..

I am shortly to begin the adventure;

Here is what I've got-

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 1st December 2018 11:38
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JeremyG
post 1st December 2018 11:48
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Looks lovely rolleyes.gif

It is similar to the one advertised on the Taros Trade website.

I wondered if it was intended for the earlier boxer-motor vehicles, though?

The mount points look similar to my old one, however.
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dante giacosa
post 1st December 2018 13:52
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your 'old one' on the 145, Jeremy?

Did that other dark coloured 146 that you had, have one..?
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JeremyG
post 1st December 2018 14:06
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 1st December 2018 13:52) *
your 'old one' on the 145, Jeremy?

Did that other dark coloured 146 that you had, have one..?


Yes - the old undertray from the 145 I removed yesterday.

The other 146 I had recently did not have an undertray, I'm afraid.
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dante giacosa
post 1st December 2018 16:49
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Interesting -

I see your point- the central sump cutout does seem a bit more longitudinal than transverse...


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dante giacosa
post 3rd December 2018 20:55
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well,

A quick lie down in the damp, and a fool around with some bolts, has revealed the following.

The front two mounting positions which go on the radiator support bar, are standard M6, and despite appearances under the car, a quick poke has gotten an M6 through the holes in the metalwork at either end (I thought they were too small).
There is a slight clash with pipe work above the NS support- I think it is to the AC condenser.

The two rearmost positions, line up with holes in the 'flattened longitudinal box section' which is present on either side; beneath the front floorwells. Indeed it now seems that this is the purpose of this box section- to provide this hole for mounting.
A quick poke with an M10 & M12 revealed no tapped thread above; and I therefore assume the rearmost positions mount with one of those white plastic knock-in 'plugs'.
If you've ever had the fuel tank out you'll know what I mean- they line up the support strap at the front.

As for the intermediary two positions- I have yet to lay eyes on the exact spots they interface with. I may take a wheel off tomorrow night to get a better look.

Stay tuned!

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 3rd December 2018 21:02
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JeremyG
post 3rd December 2018 22:05
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 3rd December 2018 20:55) *
Stay tuned!

I will indeed - so does the hole fit around the gearbox OK?

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dante giacosa
post 4th December 2018 03:43
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i don't know about that yet, actually-

I suspect the gearbox, will be wholly above the tray, with the cutout lining up with (most of) the sump and 'sump-wing' at the rear.

It's possible I'll have to be a bit imaginative to get it to fit, if there's a line-up issue.


That, is a secondary concern at this stage..!
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shpuncik
post 4th December 2018 21:30
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I so envy you Jim - always wanted undertray for my 145 biggrin.gif
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dante giacosa
post 4th December 2018 22:05
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hands off, Valdas!!!

(Although; I'll be lucky to get it to work at this point!)

No real progress today (occupied with an aux belts (plural) change on a friends' FIAT), but I am fabricating some SERIOUS wooden roll-on ramps, to give me 10cm raised height with the wheels still on. One is in clamps, gluing tonight.

(Stop laughing)

I did however have a quick look for the forward-intermediary mounting points (as identified by Jeremy as being into the arch inspection panels). Whilst I have the inspection panel on the OS: there is no hole on the returned underside.
On the NS; there doesn't appear to be a panel missing, but there is no position for a fixing either.

I'm thinking I may fabricate a bracket to catch the unused lower-forward hole in the gearbox casing. It goes right through on the edge of the casing and appears to be an M8 sized hole.
I may revise that plan.

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JeremyG
post 5th December 2018 09:56
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QUOTE(shpuncik @ 4th December 2018 21:30) *
I so envy you Jim - always wanted undertray for my 145 biggrin.gif


32 euro from these guys... though the delivery charges might be as much again...

https://www.tarostrade.com/plastic-cover-un...-1999-1-2000-12

Definitely looks the same shape as dante's, but no sign of the metal heat shield for the exhaust.

Worth a try?

By the way - dante, when I get round to my cambelt change I'll send you a photo of the inspection panel moulding with the fixing.

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 5th December 2018 10:09
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JeremyG
post 7th December 2018 09:16
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These might help:

Attached Image


Attached Image


The fixings at the rear look to be plastic screws (item 8 on the first image).

The fixings forward of these (in the subframe, I think) are set screws into a captive nut (items 6 and 7).

Plus, you also have the sizes for the bolts for the front fixings and the wheelarch (items 3 and 5 - M6x14 and M6x18 respectively).

Item 8 is available via eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOUCHON-FIXATION...bYGQ3:rk:1:pf:0

Fancy buying up the lot?

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 7th December 2018 09:30
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dante giacosa
post 7th December 2018 09:48
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crikey- you're some resource, Dr G-

THANKYOU for digging that out-

I wish I'd seen that last night- for reasons that will become obvious, in due course. I have just ordered two of Item 8; thank you.

well; "its ON"

The first stage involved the M6 fixings into the front radiator-support rail. This was tricky; for two reasons; the width of the under tray is slightly wider than the fixing pitch on the support rail. So I had to utilise 'physical force' to push one side in to line up the holes. (the alternative; would have been to file one/ both holes in the rail to make them 'longer')
Once in position, the NS fixing was compromised by a fold in the under tray material clashing with the support bracket for the power steering cooling loop-pipes.
I had to chop a very small corner of the under tray off to get this to fit in.

The under tray is a very curious material- I got a small cut into it, with my toy-knife; but then NOTHING else- the best thing would have been to use a junior hacksaw I expect; but I didn't have one to hand. So the old Elliot Lucas pliers came in handy; and it kind of crunched off.

The power steering cooling loop pipes' bracket could have been moved a little bit, but the pozidrive fixing screw holding it (down into the radiator support rail) was UNDER the pipes themselves. It just seemed a bit too complicate at 22:00.


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JeremyG
post 7th December 2018 10:12
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Nice!

How did you fix it further back?
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dante giacosa
post 7th December 2018 10:25
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the next set of fixing holes back, currently; as the car stands- have nowhere to interface with, as I don't have the mating inspection-panel on the OS, and seemingly no inspection-panel on the NS.

So, the next set of fixings back, would meet the subframe. Despite fairly concerted efforts; I could NOT see where these holes would meet the subframe- so I resorted to the old pen-through-the-hole trick to mark the metal. This worked and revealed a couple of plain holes of about 11mm, with 'nothing' above them. They were not tapped with threads, so i decided, as the fixing hole in the under tray for this position has a metal ring round it; that I should use a bolt.

I dug out my fixings-box, and brought out a variety of bolts; I quickly established that the ideal size would an M12. As it happens; I have a good stock of FIAT/Alfa M12's from a seatbelt set I had recently salvaged from another car. However; I would need to tap the hole in the subframe in situ; and returned to work to retrieve my toy tap & die kit.
Unfortunately I did not have a tap for M12 x (Alfa thread?), but I did have a tap for M12 x 1.75, which is actually a bolt size that I keep at work (along with some ace giant plain-washers). See attached image of FIAT/Alfa M12 (gold colour) and standard M12 x 1.75 bolt.

So; I thought to myself; 'how would Alfa handle this?'

and I came to the conclusion that I would have to go with what I had; As I need the under tray on the car for next Tuesday's drive to Orkney; and last night was the only night I have free beforehand.

So I tapped the subframe in position- which I can tell you; at arms length; mostly with one hand; was 'exciting'.

It worked.

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 7th December 2018 11:00
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dante giacosa
post 7th December 2018 10:43
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(thankyou)

next up, was the rearmost positions, which define the functionality of that otherwise obscure flattened box-section that we have under the front floor wells.

I have to admit that despite a fairly concerted attempt to find some legacy grey knock-in fuel-tank strap locating-fixings; that I couldn't. So I robbed them from the car! One from the front, and one from the back, and knocked them into the fixing positions on the undertray- they are perfect actually; but not as perfect I suspect as the proper fixings, as identified by Jeremy last night; which I have now ordered.

see attached




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dante giacosa
post 7th December 2018 10:57
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in conclusion-

it would be worth noting that on my example- a genuine Alfa part; there was quite a bit of effort required for line-up; which I suppose with hindsight; would go without saying.

I haven't mentioned the effort required to line up the M12 positions; one side was nearly 7mm out, perhaps due to the incursion in 'flatness' provided by the exhaust mounting bracket; which pressed downwards somewhat awkwardly into the under tray. see attached image.

It might have been worth trying to adjust that bracket in advance- hopefully it won't become a problem, before I get it off again; in the Spring...
(because the bracket was pressing the tray downwards; this would shorten it's 'width' slightly)

However- when I saw the underneath cutout at the front, and how it lines up with the car; I was REALLY pleased- it's quite obviously actually the correct under tray for the TS models, as the cutout matches the exhaust manifold with a radiused hole at the rear corner; for the sump plug.

Perfect!

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 7th December 2018 11:02
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JeremyG
post 7th December 2018 11:39
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Nice work!

BTW - a further glance at ePer shows the boxer and twinspark cars have different part numbers for the undertray, as you'd expect.

As you say, yours looks like the right fit for a twinspark - and it also looks exactly the same shape as the one for sale on the Taros Trade website (even though the site quotes the part number for the boxer-engined cars...!)

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 7th December 2018 12:27
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dante giacosa
post 7th December 2018 12:31
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(thankyou)

yes- I think I thought from the Taros-trade site; that the dates of cars (they said) it was appropriate to; meant the boxer engined cars.

Although; as you say; it looks just like this one; which is obviously is for the T-spark


so, if the image is correct (on their site), but the part No. is wrong; then it'll likely do all CF1 / CF2 versions..?



I'll tell you something else- the engine sounded different this morning on the way to work; it was quieter & deeper in tone..!

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 7th December 2018 12:50
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dante giacosa
post 9th December 2018 16:03
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a further couple of after-thoughts...

With the wheels turned left, the NS side inner-arch is revealed ahead of the wheel; and you can see, not just the standard NS inner-arch inspection cover, but the proximity between the unused hole in the gearbox-casing & the (so far) unused side mount on the undertray (see attached images)

I don't think it's too great a leap of faith to see a mounting-point opportunity here. I'm going to knock up a bracket to join the two.

Separately, but in the same area; the undertray has a returned edge which comes up to meet the front edge of the arch-liner (in front of the road wheel)
Due to the flexibility of materials; this could sit either ahead, or behind the arch liner. I wonder which is the best orientation?

(Please ignore my toy-temperature display external-probe; it currently hangs under the car at this point)

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