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> Crank pulley wobble, belt squeak
kejkla
post 21st April 2020 01:53
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Hello guys. I have a solid crankshaft pulley wobble. Problem is that I changed the pulley and it didnt help. What else could it be? Is there some bearing that hold crankshaft in side of engine block? Or can it be like bent crankshaft?

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In real eyes it looks even worse than in the video. Thanks
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dante giacosa
post 21st April 2020 12:23
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Hey Kejkla-

that's strange.

I have to say I would be inclined to suggest it was the 'end' of the crankshaft onto which the pulley mounts.

I think if you had that much vibration on the crank itself; the engine probably wouldn't run; or would be making some serious noise. It sounds like you have some residual 'bearing'/ pulley sounds, but beyond that it sounds good.

Can I ask how you noticed the problem..? Does the car have a wider issue which pointed to this...?

Perhaps it's always been like this, and is just fine...
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kejkla
post 21st April 2020 13:02
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I noticed it because i was investigating the annoying belt squeek which you can hear in video. And it is from this crankshaft pulley. Otherwise I think engine sounds normal just a typical variator clicking. Other issue on car is this but i dont think those problems are connected.
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dante giacosa
post 21st April 2020 15:49
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yes, I think you are right- I don't think those problems are connected.

I must say; although the noise appears to match the rotational movement of the pulley; it 'could be' incidental.

I personally had to replace the aux belt tensioner last year for an identical sound; which turned out to be a tiny eccentric-movement or 'play' in the plastic-pulley itself- see attached image.


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shpuncik
post 23rd April 2020 13:22
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QUOTE(kejkla @ 21st April 2020 02:53) *
Hello guys. I have a solid crankshaft pulley wobble. Problem is that I changed the pulley and it didnt help. What else could it be? Is there some bearing that hold crankshaft in side of engine block? Or can it be like bent crankshaft?

VIDEO
In real eyes it looks even worse than in the video. Thanks


have you replaced with new or used pulley?
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sanitary
post 23rd April 2020 14:20
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the last time i heard a squeak like that it was the alternator

and that was such a fun job to do...





with the crank pulley I would take it off again and make sure every surface was extra squeaky clean



san

This post has been edited by sanitary: 23rd April 2020 14:21
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dante giacosa
post 26th April 2020 19:53
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any movement on this, Kejkla..?
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kejkla
post 28th April 2020 02:36
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QUOTE(shpuncik @ 23rd April 2020 13:22) *
have you replaced with new or used pulley?

I replaced with used pulley from my dads fiat barchetta. But in his car it has no movement at all so I dont think crank pulley is the cause. Also my local mechanic had a look and he said that if it would be cranshaft then the engine will probably run bad. He said that it might be the smaller pulley under this one that maybe previous owner put it back wrong when doing timing belt replacement.

QUOTE
with the crank pulley I would take it off again and make sure every surface was extra squeaky clean
I did that already but I will try one more time.

QUOTE
any movement on this, Kejkla..?

Unfortunetly not really no3.gif I will buy new aux belt now because this one is worn from wobble on sides. That may remove sqeek but it wont remove core of problem...
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dante giacosa
post 28th April 2020 07:50
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when you buy the aux belt-

by a new tensioner-pulley for it also; that is what was making the noise on mine- picture above

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 28th April 2020 07:51
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langers
post 3rd May 2020 07:44
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To be honest, to me, I have seen it before, It does not look overly odd. It wont be the crank, if it were that then it would be destroying the seal and oil would be flowing out.


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dante giacosa
post 3rd May 2020 12:19
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thanks Langers-

so you would agree that the visible movement is likely to be a coincidence, relative to the noise; which is probably something else...?
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JeremyG
post 3rd May 2020 13:18
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I don't think that wobble looks too bad, either.

Have you tried running the engine with the aux belt disconnected - just to confirm 100% that the squeak is coming from something driven by the aux belt?

Stupid question - when you refitted the crank pulley, did you ensure the pin on the flange correctly engaged with the hole in the pulley?

Also - it's unlikely the pulley for the timing belt was removed from the crankshaft during the last cambelt change - it's not necessary to do that when replacing the cambelt.

If it IS something driven by the aux belt, then Dante's suggestion to replace the tensioner is a good one, as a) it's not expensive, and b) it's easy to replace!

This not the case for any of the other devices (alternator, power steering pump, aircon compressor...)

You could also spray some WD-40 or silicone spray on the tensioner while the engine is running to see if this stops the squeak.
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dante giacosa
post 3rd May 2020 18:18
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QUOTE(JeremyG @ 3rd May 2020 14:18) *
I don't think that wobble looks too bad, either.

You could also spray some WD-40 or silicone spray on the tensioner while the engine is running to see if this stops the squeak.


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kejkla
post 4th May 2020 13:17
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QUOTE(JeremyG @ 3rd May 2020 13:18) *
I don't think that wobble looks too bad, either.

Have you tried running the engine with the aux belt disconnected - just to confirm 100% that the squeak is coming from something driven by the aux belt?

Stupid question - when you refitted the crank pulley, did you ensure the pin on the flange correctly engaged with the hole in the pulley?

Also - it's unlikely the pulley for the timing belt was removed from the crankshaft during the last cambelt change - it's not necessary to do that when replacing the cambelt.

If it IS something driven by the aux belt, then Dante's suggestion to replace the tensioner is a good one, as a) it's not expensive, and b) it's easy to replace!

This not the case for any of the other devices (alternator, power steering pump, aircon compressor...)

You could also spray some WD-40 or silicone spray on the tensioner while the engine is running to see if this stops the squeak.


Wobble look worser in eyes than i video. I ensured pin alignment is good. I tried running without aux belt and squeek stopped. Also the aux belt is worn from the sides and I think its from the pulley wobble because i dont see where else it could wear from sides. The parts should come at wednesday or thursday so I will see then. Also sorry for my clunky english... and thanks for your advices smile.gif
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dante giacosa
post 4th May 2020 20:08
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That's great news, Kejkla-

it really had to be that, I think..
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kejkla
post 14th May 2020 18:49
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So I changed the belt and unfortunetly it didnt help... But i think it only does the sound when outside air is moist. So maybe it is some pulley or the mentioned tensioner. I ordered some bearings so I will tell you if it helped after they will be changed. Also i found this hole from belt in timing cover... I see there is missing one screw for cover but when I put in new it was kind of bending whole cover and then was dangerously close to timing belt so i didnt screw it all the way in. Im not sure if the cover is seated properly. I mean should the timing cover be placed over the base of idler pulley like its on the picture or should the base slide in the hole in the cover to make it more flat? I hope you will understand my words biggrin.gif

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Ganz
post 14th May 2020 21:55
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Looks like you got the bottom half of the belt cover missing. That groove into the belt cover is either because the cover is not bolted down properly and the auxiliary belt has been in contact. Its probably worn away the side of the auxiliary belt and that may snap later on. I had a similar problem on mine when the belt was hitting the belt cover. I had a belt cover that was missing piece so I glued some plastic on it and this rubbed against the auxiliary belt. The belt went from being 7 grooves wide to 5 then 0. It finally snapped when it was worn so bad there was only around 5mm of belt left.
Check to see if the auxiliary belt still the correct width or has it been worn away on one side.


Attached Image

I didn't see it at the time but there was only two thirds of the belt left at this point.

[attachment=19476:Cambelt_...r_damage.jpg]

Not sure whether my pulley has the same wobble. I know that those auxiliary pulleys are rubber mounted - maybe the rubber part has deteriorated - but you say you replaced with another one - chance of the two having the same problem is slim.

This post has been edited by Ganz: 14th May 2020 21:58
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kejkla
post 15th May 2020 10:49
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QUOTE(Ganz @ 14th May 2020 21:55) *
Looks like you got the bottom half of the belt cover missing. That groove into the belt cover is either because the cover is not bolted down properly and the auxiliary belt has been in contact. Its probably worn away the side of the auxiliary belt and that may snap later on. I had a similar problem on mine when the belt was hitting the belt cover. I had a belt cover that was missing piece so I glued some plastic on it and this rubbed against the auxiliary belt. The belt went from being 7 grooves wide to 5 then 0. It finally snapped when it was worn so bad there was only around 5mm of belt left.
Check to see if the auxiliary belt still the correct width or has it been worn away on one side.
Attached Image

I didn't see it at the time but there was only two thirds of the belt left at this point.

[attachment=19476:Cambelt_...r_damage.jpg]

Not sure whether my pulley has the same wobble. I know that those auxiliary pulleys are rubber mounted - maybe the rubber part has deteriorated - but you say you replaced with another one - chance of the two having the same problem is slim.


Thats is interesting. It looks like there are more versions of cam covers. I think I have that one: Cover and you have that one: Cover. I changed my belt recently but my old belt was worn on one side but only a little bit not even a whole groove. I have 1.6 88kw cf1 (I think engine code is 67601 but im not sure).
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JeremyG
post 15th May 2020 12:56
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QUOTE(kejkla @ 14th May 2020 19:49) *
So I changed the belt and unfortunetly it didnt help... But i think it only does the sound when outside air is moist. So maybe it is some pulley or the mentioned tensioner. I ordered some bearings so I will tell you if it helped after they will be changed. Also i found this hole from belt in timing cover... I see there is missing one screw for cover but when I put in new it was kind of bending whole cover and then was dangerously close to timing belt so i didnt screw it all the way in. Im not sure if the cover is seated properly. I mean should the timing cover be placed over the base of idler pulley like its on the picture or should the base slide in the hole in the cover to make it more flat? I hope you will understand my words biggrin.gif



So the aux belt has definitely been rubbing on the cambelt cover.

As you say, it could be because the cambelt cover is not fitting correctly - or it could still be because the pulley or crankshaft is out of true.

As Ganz says, it would be highly unlikely that two pulleys would both have the same "wobbling" problem - so could it be that the crankshaft is out?

Have you tried running the engine as it is in this picture - with the pulley removed - to see if it is straight?

It would be very surprising if the end of the crank was bent, but once you've excluded all other options, the remaining one must be true, no matter how outlandish it seems....!


This post has been edited by JeremyG: 15th May 2020 12:58
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kejkla
post 16th May 2020 01:46
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QUOTE(JeremyG @ 15th May 2020 12:56) *
So the aux belt has definitely been rubbing on the cambelt cover.

As you say, it could be because the cambelt cover is not fitting correctly - or it could still be because the pulley or crankshaft is out of true.

As Ganz says, it would be highly unlikely that two pulleys would both have the same "wobbling" problem - so could it be that the crankshaft is out?

Have you tried running the engine as it is in this picture - with the pulley removed - to see if it is straight?

It would be very surprising if the end of the crank was bent, but once you've excluded all other options, the remaining one must be true, no matter how outlandish it seems....!


Here you can see wobble without pulley off. Again it does look a little bit worse in eyes than in video but it doesn't look so bad either. I guess that is because the wheel is much smaller so it doesnt throw that much.
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