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> What is the right engine temperature for an AR 145/146?, Does nominal engine temperature varies by model version?
alfizta
post 27th April 2018 18:42
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QUOTE(Antonio @ 25th April 2018 23:07) *
Your thermostat should open at 83C (both versions works at 83C)


sorry to insist on this, but if you google the part numbers or put it on ebay, all specs confirm 83 C opening temp for v1 thermostat and 88 C for the v2.
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Jacob
post 28th April 2018 00:56
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After the valuable info got here and processing all the input, i did some digging concerning the thermostats.

What i found out agrees with @alfizta post about thermostat types and operating temperatures. But it seems that a detail makes a difference and it has to do with the 1.4L capacity TS CF1/2/3 engines then the rest TS engines.

Regardless of year construction, all 1.4 16V T.S engines (and earlier some AR155) go with the following thermostat type/variation corresponding to these part numbers and operate at 83C.

OEN 46550153 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 60614140 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 46550153 — FIAT
OEN 60614140 — FIAT
OEN 46550153 — LANCIA
OEN 60614140 — LANCIA

Attached Image

All CF1 engines (metal top) except 1.4L go with the following thermostat type/variation corresponding to these part numbers and operate also at 83C.

OEN 60602148 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 606 0214 8 — FERRARI
OEN 60602148 — FIAT
OEN 60602148 — LANCIA
OEN 60812410 — FIAT

Attached Image

Take a close look on this two thermostat and you will notice the difference in their circulation system.

Later on CF2/3 engines (plastic top) except 1.4L are compatible with the following thermostat type/variation corresponding to these part numbers and operate at 88C.

OEN 60609025 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 60653946 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 60814382 — ALFA ROMEO
OEN 606 5394 6 — FERRARI
OEN 608 1438 2 — FERRARI
OEN 60609025 — FIAT
OEN 60653946 — FIAT
OEN 60814382 — FIAT
OEN 60609025 — LANCIA
OEN 60653946 — LANCIA
OEN 60814382 — LANCIA

Attached Image

So from what it seems, TS engines nominal operating temperatures vary according to variation and capacity. CF1 and 1.4L engines have thermostats working at 83C thus the spectrum from 70C to 90C cooler/water temperature should be considered as optimal.
On the other hand CF2 and CF3 engines except 1.4L have a bit higher range of optimal operating temperatures as their thermostats work at 88C. So in this case operating temperature range between 80C to 100C should be considered as nominal and optimal for this engines.

One more thing i came across, but need some more research, is that CF1/2/3 engines although seem to be identical as the engine body/block and valve head is concerned, they are actually only close to the row of manufacturing while they have slight differences in the body part metal thickens, and major differences in the base alloy used. So it makes sense that different thermodynamics apply to each variation having an impact on the optimal operating temperatures.

...so in my case, 100C for a 1.4L TS although nominal for CF2 and CF3 engines, is a bad, bad thing angry.gif

This post has been edited by Jacob: 28th April 2018 01:06
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dante giacosa
post 29th April 2018 20:38
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Crikey Jacob,

This is getting pretty technical.

So, do you 'know' what you need to know then..?

I'm sorry I can't bring any more to the table, so to speak..

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Jacob
post 1st May 2018 09:26
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 29th April 2018 23:38) *
Crikey Jacob,

This is getting pretty technical.

So, do you 'know' what you need to know then..?

I'm sorry I can't bring any more to the table, so to speak..



Thanks dante, you have been very helpful. Not yet sure where my problem lies. I have decided to go for a new original temp sensor and high end quality radiator. Perhaps i should also conduct a high pressure engine block water system circulation cleaning.

I will let know about my findings.

Cheers
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dante giacosa
post 1st May 2018 11:45
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okay- sounds like a plan

are you sure that you have the right thermostat, then..?
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Jacob
post 1st May 2018 19:15
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 1st May 2018 14:45) *
okay- sounds like a plan

are you sure that you have the right thermostat, then..?


Yes, thermostat type is ok! If it works though correctly or have quality issues is another thing... hahaha
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Ganz
post 3rd May 2018 21:03
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I agree with Antonio. My ph1 or cf1 alway hangs at 80degrees. However i suspected this might not be the correct temp as my ts 147 always hangs at 90 degrees in the middle of the temp gauge. However my 145 was never this stable in the past and quite often i had to pull over to let the engine cool. Since the rebuild it has been perfect cold or warm weather. First cause of my overheating back in the day waz a radiator that had no fins left. Replaced this and it was better. Second thing was when i replaced the thermostat i tested the old one and it did not open when submersed in boiling water. So i also had a knackerd radiator thermo. The other thing waz the amount of s**t i had in the coolant. Change the coolant regular. Since the rebuild here is what happens. Stuck in traffic for half hour the temp goes from 80 to 90 and then the fan kicks in. Apparantly there is a second temp where the fan kicks in again this is when it gets to 95-7 degrees. By the way during the rebuild i replaced the radiator coiled sensor that sits in the rad. My original looked worse for wear. It's all happy days now.


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Jacob
post 3rd May 2018 23:22
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QUOTE(Ganz @ 4th May 2018 00:03) *
I agree with Antonio. My ph1 or cf1 alway hangs at 80degrees. However i suspected this might not be the correct temp as my ts 147 always hangs at 90 degrees in the middle of the temp gauge. However my 145 was never this stable in the past and quite often i had to pull over to let the engine cool. Since the rebuild it has been perfect cold or warm weather. First cause of my overheating back in the day waz a radiator that had no fins left. Replaced this and it was better. Second thing was when i replaced the thermostat i tested the old one and it did not open when submersed in boiling water. So i also had a knackerd radiator thermo. The other thing waz the amount of s**t i had in the coolant. Change the coolant regular. Since the rebuild here is what happens. Stuck in traffic for half hour the temp goes from 80 to 90 and then the fan kicks in. Apparantly there is a second temp where the fan kicks in again this is when it gets to 95-7 degrees. By the way during the rebuild i replaced the radiator coiled sensor that sits in the rad. My original looked worse for wear. It's all happy days now.



thumbsup.gif
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dante giacosa
post 4th May 2018 16:49
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i think the radiator coiled sensor is a PH1 feature.

As I understand it, the PH2 radiator fan speeds are picked by the ECU from the coolant sensor on the thermostat.

I have indicators actually (!) to show radiator fan functionality, and I have never seen the 1st fan speed operate.

The car sits at a solid 'indicated' 90 degree coolant temp, and I've been in a lot of traffic in the current 'heatwave' on the way down South yesterday- and I only ever get fan speed 2.


I think the 1st fan speed might be more associated with the air conditioning, which I have yet to get functional.
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