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> Black Ph1 145 QV resuscitation
JeremyG
post 6th August 2018 11:07
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QUOTE(145man @ 5th August 2018 11:19) *
Hi

I used a fairly blunt chisel to remove the bitumen layer on mine, I removed it all but it is hard going. Once removed I primed and sprayed the floor for extra protection, then used the self adhesive sound pads to replace the bitumen. Heat the sound pads with a heat gun and they go in a treat.
I used felt and crumb rubber carpet underlay to replace the other stuff. Ive used this on several cars and again it works well.
Hope this is of use.


Thanks, that's helpful - was the underlay standard household material you'd get from a regular carpet store?



QUOTE(SteveG @ 5th August 2018 23:23) *
Don't know how practical/possible for DIY use, but on one episode of Wheeler Dealers or maybe it was Car SOS, they use dry ice - kind of makes it brittle and yhen chip it out


Thanks, sounds like either hot or cold will be needed to shift this stuff more easily than just gouging it out...

I've been scoring the surface with a Stanley knife, then chipping away in 2-3cm chunks using a flat-blade screwdriver and a hammer. Wire-brushing has revealed some clean metal to cut back to:

Attached Image


And here are the results of my headlamp adjuster repair:

Attached Image


... and refitting in the headlamp unit...

Attached Image


I've reassembled and refitted the headlamp and the adjuster works OK - it just gets to the same level as the intact unit, but no higher. Fingers crossed it'll get me through the MoT!

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 6th August 2018 12:25
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dante giacosa
post 7th August 2018 08:20
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good work, Jeremy-

did you grind that back yourself..?
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JeremyG
post 7th August 2018 08:45
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 7th August 2018 09:20) *
good work, Jeremy-

did you grind that back yourself..?


Yessir. Wire brush attachment on a drill.
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dante giacosa
post 7th August 2018 13:03
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good effort- it's very clean- what decision did you come to over welding..?
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JeremyG
post 12th August 2018 16:22
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 7th August 2018 14:03) *
good effort- it's very clean- what decision did you come to over welding..?


Passenger's side floorpan - much more solid, with only a couple of perforations and not too far apart:

Attached Image


Having wirebrushed the underside of both of these floorpan repair spots I'll be taking the car round to the welders tomorrow to get a price...
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dante giacosa
post 13th August 2018 06:13
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fingers crossed then...!
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JeremyG
post 15th August 2018 09:34
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 13th August 2018 07:13) *
fingers crossed then...!


OK - car inspected and acceptable quote received - now I just need to strip back more of the bitumen gunk from the interior and I'll get it booked in. Aiming for next week.
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dante giacosa
post 15th August 2018 13:41
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good work-

that's great news. Seems to be the wrong time of year for smashing that stuff off, eh?

Doesn't it shatter 'better' if it's cold...


All the work; in-one-visit then, Jeremy..?

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JeremyG
post 15th August 2018 13:46
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 15th August 2018 14:41) *
good work-

that's great news. Seems to be the wrong time of year for smashing that stuff off, eh?

Doesn't it shatter 'better' if it's cold...
All the work; in-one-visit then, Jeremy..?


Yes, all in one hit - two patches to the front outer floorpan both sides, and the little patch on the outer sill at the back.

Question: given there is currently a hole in the sill, is it worth taking the opportunity of injecting Dinitrol (or the like) via that route before it gets plugged forever?

(Not sure if those products are flammable and therefore not a good mix with a welding torch...)
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dante giacosa
post 15th August 2018 16:33
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Ha!

the Dinitrol question!

The stuff you want for the sills is called ML, by the way. An internal-cavity wax. Get the extension-wand.

Actually- i've STILL to use mine.


You can access the internal sill afterwards from the front I think (maybe the back as well..?) through these removable blind-grommets in the sill-to-lower-arch join.

I personally wouldn't want to compromise the weld 'adhesion'' and surface prep; with all that stuff swilling round inside; chances are the heat from the work will melt it all in a flash anyway! I'm not sure if it's flammable; but I'd want to give them the driest surface available to try to get the new material to take to...
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SteveG
post 15th August 2018 20:34
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QUOTE(JeremyG @ 15th August 2018 14:46) *
Yes, all in one hit - two patches to the front outer floorpan both sides, and the little patch on the outer sill at the back.

Question: given there is currently a hole in the sill, is it worth taking the opportunity of injecting Dinitrol (or the like) via that route before it gets plugged forever?

(Not sure if those products are flammable and therefore not a good mix with a welding torch...)

I would get welding done first.
You can use the holes for the sill trim to inject Dinitrol or whatever.
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JeremyG
post 19th August 2018 13:38
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QUOTE(SteveG @ 15th August 2018 21:34) *
I would get welding done first.
You can use the holes for the sill trim to inject Dinitrol or whatever.


Fair enough!

Final preparations for floorpan welding are now completed.

Inside the cabin, I've stripped back the bituminous gunk beyond the welding area. Hairdryer on max heat made this job relatively easy:

Attached Image


Attached Image


Outside, I've straightened the seams where inner and outer sills meet - they have been badly mangled by attempts to jack the car up using a trolley jack. I don't have a "before" picture, but believe me - they were much worse than they are now. Straightened them using a pair of Mole grips.

I wanted to get them as straight as I could before the floorpan welding was done - because I sure won't be able to do it afterwards...

Also scraped back the paint and sealant so I can treat the surface once the welding is done.

Attached Image


Final thing to sort out before it goes - change the country setting for the alarm system to prevent it self-arming. It's currently in the habit of self-arming, and then triggering itself. Every 30 seconds. But I've hit a snag - the bonnet switch does not appear to be working... (maybe that's why it's triggering in the first place) so I can't change the country code. Some research required on how to troubleshoot this...

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 19th August 2018 13:39
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Ganz
post 19th August 2018 21:36
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That last pic is nasty. Cut it out. Good job on the Alfa mate thumbup.gif


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Harpo
post 21st August 2018 12:19
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Iíve only just caught up with this thread.
8 years off the road? Do you know why it was taken off in the first place Jeremy?
Itís very interesting and inspiring to read what you have achieved. Well done!
I didnít see if and how you sorted out the binding brake. If itís still not fixed then I would like to suggest that it could be the brake hose causing the binding. If the hose is breaking down internally then all the gunge can act as a block to the fluid.
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JeremyG
post 21st August 2018 21:14
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QUOTE(Ganz @ 19th August 2018 22:36) *
That last pic is nasty. Cut it out. Good job on the Alfa mate thumbup.gif


For sure - all that rusty metal is going. Bad news is, I can't get the welding done for another couple of weeks due to holidays... still, that gives me time to sort the other MoT items. The garage doing the welding are MoT testers too so the plan is for the car to return with a repaired floorpan and 12 months' MoT...

QUOTE(Harpo @ 21st August 2018 13:19) *
Iíve only just caught up with this thread.
8 years off the road? Do you know why it was taken off in the first place Jeremy?
Itís very interesting and inspiring to read what you have achieved. Well done!
I didnít see if and how you sorted out the binding brake. If itís still not fixed then I would like to suggest that it could be the brake hose causing the binding. If the hose is breaking down internally then all the gunge can act as a block to the fluid.


Thanks!

The car was taken off the road as the owner started a family and outgrew the car. I think he intended to return to it one day, but lost his garage space.

And that's a great shout on the brake hose - it would fit perfectly with my symptoms. New hose ordered!

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 21st August 2018 21:16
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JeremyG
post 25th August 2018 22:35
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Today I fitted a new flexible hose to the troublesome front offside brake. After bleeding, the pads seem to step back from the disks when pedal pressure is released - a positive sign.

Next job - replacing ball joint rubber seals. The retaining bolts on both hubs were hard work to remove, but they're both freed up now and ready to come out.

I thought I had a forked joint splitter, but couldn't find it... lifting the hub carefully using a trolley jack under the disk and attempting to lever the lower arm out with a bar didn't quite work.

Will search for the splitter again tomorrow...

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 26th August 2018 04:33
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dante giacosa
post 26th August 2018 08:53
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jeremy-

Could you go into some detail on the tooling you used for the retaining bolts on the hubs, please..?

I'm shortly to undertake this on a FIAT Coupť project-car that I've got a share in, and there will shortly be a ramp-up on required tooling ; most of my socket stuff is 1/4" drive!

Did you have a massive extension-bar to get the torque? And did you attempt the bolts clockwise first, to get them moving, before the anti-clockwise undo?

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JeremyG
post 26th August 2018 09:54
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QUOTE(dante giacosa @ 26th August 2018 09:53) *
jeremy-

Could you go into some detail on the tooling you used for the retaining bolts on the hubs, please..?

I'm shortly to undertake this on a FIAT Coupť project-car that I've got a share in, and there will shortly be a ramp-up on required tooling ; most of my socket stuff is 1/4" drive!

Did you have a massive extension-bar to get the torque? And did you attempt the bolts clockwise first, to get them moving, before the anti-clockwise undo?


Sure, the bolt has a 15mm head and the nut is 17mm. I'd advise getting new replacements - you can get them from Partsworld at about £7 a set.

When the nut is done up, there is a fair length of bolt thread behind it that will have been exposed to the elements, so spend some time wire-brushing and applying WD-40.

I didn't try tightening before loosening - these are substantial bolts and you'd be going some to shear one.

In my case, the bolts had seized inside the hub and so I'd recommend trying to turn the nuts first. The nuts are also deeper than the bolt head so you are less likely to damage them.

So - you'll need a long-nose 17mm socket and a long breaker bar to get to work on the nut. Mine are 1/2" drive - I wouldn't try anything less.

Plus, for access, turning the steering helps a lot - so you either need both front wheels off the ground (which also helps remove any unhelpful torque via the ARB when you come to split the steering joint) or split the track rod end from the hub (also 17mm, as is the ARB drop-link. See? That long nose 17mm socket is coming in pretty handy!).

Once you've got the nut moving then you'll know if the bolt has seized as you can continue undoing the nut without having to get a spanner on the bolt head. If this is the case, when the nut is flush with the end of the bolt, hit both with a mallet to free the bolt. Use heat, more WD-40 etc if needed.

If the bolt is not seized in the hub then I'd suggest a cranked 15mm spanner on the bolt head. This will spin round and bear against the hub or the disk while you continue to remove the nut with a ratchet - and the crank should keep it away from the outside CV joint boot.

Once the bolt is out, a forked joint splitter should be enough to separate the joint. Although you'll also be battling against the rubber bushes in the lower arm, which want to return to their resting position with the arm parallel with the road - hence lifting the hub with a jack under the brake disc, or levering the arm downwards, or both.

So in summary, your kit list is:

- replacement nut and bolt (part numbers 7676614 and 7676615)
- wire brush
- wd40
- long nose 17mm socket
- long breaker bar
- ratchet drive
- 15mm cranked spanner
- forked joint splitter
- mallet

Here's a link to some pics of the procedure on the alfaworkshop website: https://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_lower_wishbone.shtml

Useful to know that the damper pinch bolts are the same size - so you can use the same tools if you need to remove the struts!

(Sorry - that turned into a bit of an essay...)

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 26th August 2018 10:00
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dante giacosa
post 27th August 2018 08:22
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okay; thanks for that

and thank you for going into such detail on the tooling

I've seen that link before; for wishbone removal- and am 'relatively' familiar with the wishbone separation from the hub carrier- (although I've never done it yet- or had detailed info like this from someone who has)- I was thinking more of the separation of the driveshaft from CV joint.

Have I misunderstood where this task is going..?

so, you are not describing the pinch bolt removal for the dampers here; are you talking about the wishbone removal from the subframe?

I 'thought' you were making reference to the joint separation on the driveshaft at the hub.


Could I ask you to post a picture of this Jeremy?
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Ganz
post 27th August 2018 20:44
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Great job mate. Funny I had the same rust areas though not as extensive. I chipped away the bitumen sound proofing with a big blunt screw driver and a lump hammer. I replaced this bitumen after welding with dynamat matting. The other sound proofing tthat sits on top (the felt) I got rid of as it had cracked like a jigsaw. I replaced it with some floor matting from Woolies in Peterborough (they specialise in interior matting).

Attached Image


Attached Image


Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

In regards to getting the centre nut off the hub what I did was stick a screwdriver into the air vents on my front disk and wedged it against the caliper (put some cloth between the caliper and the screwdriver). Then a four foot breaker bar with a 5 foot extension tube on half an inch socket. My nearside 147 nut refused to go and the screwdriver had twisted itself. I got a Propane gun on the hib centre nut it for 5 minutes and then tried again. Came off after some heat.

The rear hub was trickier as they are not vented discs. Took the disc off first and then did this..
Attached Image

Keep up the good work. Great to see another 145 being rebuilt.


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