Black Ph1 145 QV resuscitation Options

[JeremyG]

I got the latest acquisition back to my lair (or "forecourt", as it is becoming referred to by Mrs G) last week.

It's a '97 Phase 1 QV in black with a cloth interior on 89k miles with full history - but has been off the road for the last 8 years.

Condition is generally good all round, with decent bodywork and some rust on the floorpan (sills both sides need repairing; drain holes OK).



I'll post info here as I work through the car... but here's what I've done so far:

First challenge: bonnet won't open. Need to open bonnet to a) check there is an engine and b) get some power across the battery to close the windows - it had been stored with the windows slightly open (probably for the better)

Solution: jack up front of the car, place on stands, remove front wheels (and note that disks, pads, pipes, hoses, bushes and boots all look in reasonable nick). Get under car and realise undertray is still present (and almost intact)... luckily, there is still just enough room to force my right arm Inspector Gadget-style up behind the radiator to reach the bonnet release lever. It moves OK but the bonnet won't release. Eventually deploy teenage sons - one to pull release lever, the other to assist their father in yanking the bonnet upwards. Success comes at the second attempt - and even better, there is an engine under there... and no signs of rust on the suspension turrets. Apply grease to bonnet lock and test.



Second challenge: check the car will power up and close the windows

Solution: after 8 years, the battery is kaput, so I get some power across via jump leads from the 146 I've just sold. The alarm bleeps as the power is connected; and as I open the door the alarm goes off. I suppose that's good - but as the batteries in the key fobs are also dead I can't reset the alarm. Undeterred, I put the key in the ignition and switch on long enough to check the mileage is right, the CODE light goes out; the ECU lights turn on then off correctly; and the windows still work. With windows now closed I switch off, then disconnect the battery to shut the alarm off.

Replacing batteries in the key fobs (CR 2016 x2 in each fob) subsequently allows the alarm to be correctly engaged/disengaged, but the car battery is beyond salvation and is now awaiting recycling at the local tip.

Final check - there is oil (plenty) and water (not enough). Not going to try starting just yet, though...

Plan for this car (high level): work out if it is worth keeping, whilst spending as little money as possible

Plan for this car (slightly more detailed) - assess engine, electrics and drivetrain

Engine:

a) Remove aux belts and check alternator, power steering pump and aircon compressor will all still turn by hand

b) Remove timing belt cover and assess cam belt condition

c) If OK, remove engine top cover, coil packs and spark plugs

d) Attempt to rotate engine by hand - add lubricant to combustion chambers if required (small amount of engine oil? Plus Gas?)

e) If successful, connect battery from 146 and crank engine for compression test

f) If successful, add fresh fuel, clean and refit spark plugs and go for a start!

g) If successful, run engine up to temperature and check for leaks. Shut off then replace engine oil and filter. Top up coolant if required.

Electrics:

h) Check lights, indicators, horn, wipers, washers, blower etc. all work

Drivetrain:

i) Go for a quick drive around the block. Our roads are so bad that any suspension knocks will be immediately apparent...

Aiming to get all this done on Saturday morning... more news later...

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 18th April 2018 01:18

[dante giacosa]

thats funny about the forecourt!

top marks for getting that bonnet open, Jeremy;
I'm afraid my brood are too young, and too deeply cynicised to assist in such a task.

Lucky those windows still work; its certainly good news that all the lights went out again; including the ABS indicator.
I think I'd want to know that the radiator fan still actuates; could be important!


However; in all other respects- I admire your shortlist for a Saturday morning!

[Ganz]

Definite drain the oil then flush it with some Diesel to get any s**t out. Replace with some cheap oil just to get the engine over by hand. Worth changing filter for that first start. Alternators can seize so get that turning without the belt on. Worth taking the cam cover off to look at the condition. They'll be sludge for sure. Worth cleaning that out with some cleaner or diesel on a rag. With hindsight I would empty he coolant and replace it. My engine was full of s**t after nearly four years of standing. Condensation plays its part. These engines are pretty resilient. All the best.

[dante giacosa]

on the subject of seized alternators

here's a question;

should I be able to turn an alternator over, by hand, with it off the car..?

I've got an issue on another vehicle (practically the exact alternator that is on the ) and had an alternator in a box for a couple of years which was second hand, and dug it out this week to find it was SOLID

[JeremyG]

on the subject of seized alternators

here's a question;

should I be able to turn an alternator over, by hand, with it off the car..?

I've got an issue on another vehicle (practically the exact alternator that is on the ) and had an alternator in a box for a couple of years which was second hand, and dug it out this week to find it was SOLID

Yes, you should be able to turn your alternator by hand. But as Ganz mentioned above, they do seem to seize up - on my Spider I had to replace it; on the 145 I'm hoping not to do so (more below).

[JeremyG]

As it was such a nice day today and work was kinda slow I decided to spend some time on the checklist above. Here's how I got on:

Engine:

a) Remove aux belt and check alternator, power steering pump and aircon compressor will all still turn by hand

- DONE: Belt removed; alternator stuck; power steering pump OK; aircon compressor not present (b**ger - it's a non-A/C car)

b) Remove timing belt cover and assess cam belt condition

- DONE: Timing belt looks OK and tensioner is a metal one supporting the service history

c) If OK, remove engine top cover, coil packs and spark plugs

- DONE: Plenty of oil in all of the plug wells... so plenty of lube in the combustion chambers when attempting to start, then. Some slight damage to one of the plug connectors but not fatal - and the frame holding the coil packs is missing one of its three mounting points.

d) Attempt to rotate engine by hand - add lubricant to combustion chambers if required (small amount of engine oil? Plus Gas?)

- DONE: engine rotates fine by hand with the plugs out

e) If successful, connect battery from 146 and crank engine for compression test

- NOT DONE (haven't got a compression tester yet)

f) If successful, add fresh fuel, clean and refit spark plugs and go for a start!

- DONE: partially successful; the engine turned over, coughed and ran for about 5 seconds burning all of the oil in the combustion chambers - lots of smoke. On retry would not run for more than a few seconds at a time. No errors on engine ECU. Air intake clear; throttle body cleaned. Still no joy. Therefore, suspect no fuel supply.

g) If successful, run engine up to temperature and check for leaks. Shut off then replace engine oil and filter. Top up coolant if required.

- NOT DONE

So... time to do some reading on best way to check and clean fuel system... (although I could cobble something temporary together to feed it fuel from the identical engine on my Spider as a test...)

Not a bad morning's work - provided that alternator can be persuaded to move. I don't fancy replacing that right now...

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 20th April 2018 18:28

[JeremyG]

Removed coolant header tank for better access to cambelt cover:



Cambelt - cover is in two pieces (quite convenient, as it happens)



Coil packs out:



Damage to one connector:



Plug well dipstick:



The rest of the plugs...



The current brood (the 146 on the left is sold and leaving Monday)

[dante giacosa]

Good effort, Jeremy

How satisfying to get it to fire after four years.

And of course; that's the worst of it over; even though it didn't actually run for a period of time, the fact it turned over and blew off the cobwebs is the major hurdle over.

All downhill from here!

From what I can see of the shell and top-mounts from those pictures- it looks really solid...

[JeremyG]

Good effort, Jeremy

How satisfying to get it to fire after four years.

And of course; that's the worst of it over; even though it didn't actually run for a period of time, the fact it turned over and blew off the cobwebs is the major hurdle over.

All downhill from here!

From what I can see of the shell and top-mounts from those pictures- it looks really solid...

Thanks Jim! I'm pleased/relieved about the rust-free state of the engine bay - so far it just looks like the sills that will need repairing.

And obviously all of this takes way longer than you ever expect...

[JeremyG]

Investigated further the fuel supply issue today. Conclusion: pump is not running.

Started by disconnecting input line to the fuel rail and turning over the engine: no fuel was pumped

Then checked power to the pump: none; earth side OK (which means the inertial cutoff had not been activated).

Checked all of the relays leading to the pump (which was a familiar routine as I've recently done the same thing on my Spider) and discovered that the layout of the relays is not as per the manual. For those interested, the layout in the pic below is - from left to right - variator relay (S12c), main relay (S41), fuel pump relay (S12a).



(The manual has these as fuel pump, then variator, then main relay. I guess they could be installed in any order...)

All relays work correctly, however, and continuity of the downstream cabling to the pump was OK. Then I noticed a voltage at the pump immediately after turning on the ignition; and figured that the pump would not be running if the engine was not running. Sure enough, when turning the key to start, there is a voltage at the pump...

There is, however, still no sign of life from the pump itself, so I undid the knurled ring retaining the pump - but will probably leave it until tomorrow to get under the car and work out how to drop the tank. There's no way to remove the pump without doing this, given the access cover is in the wrong place...



Re. the alternator: I've turned the engine over (fruitlessly) many times now so I decided to refit the auxiliary belt to see if the alternator would budge under the starter motor: answer - YES!

So, making progress - but I really want to hear that motor running!

Anyone dropped their tank before? Any pointers?

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 21st April 2018 15:12

[JeremyG]

Another resto question: what's the best way to remove the white corrosion from our alloy bits?



(I don't want to paint my engine cover; I just want it clean and original-looking).

Thoughts?

[sanitary]

Another resto question: what's the best way to remove the white corrosion from our alloy bits?



(I don't want to paint my engine cover; I just want it clean and original-looking).

Thoughts?

wire brush in a dremel



aN

[JeremyG]

Removed the fuel pump assembly from the tank today (turns out it is just possible to do this without dropping the tank) and tested the pump - it's drawing current, but not pumping.

I stripped the unit down to get the pump out - it looks like an artefact from the Titanic...!



I tried hitting it with a mallet a few times but it still won't move - so, I'll be replacing it asap.

Baby steps...

... and to make up for the frustration of not being able to move forward, I polished the tailgate - came up nice!



Colour is 601 black - nothing fancy.

This post has been edited by JeremyG: 22nd April 2018 20:40

[JeremyG]

Well, I received my replacement Bosch fuel pump today, fitted it - and the car started straight off!

Fair bit of smoke (oil on the downpipe) and a tapping from the top of the engine (sticky cam follower?) but definitely a step in the right direction.

Need to check the coolant, lock down the pump assembly and go for a quick road test next. If the drivetrain is sound, she's a keeper!

[alfizta]

Removed the fuel pump assembly from the tank today (turns out it is just possible to do this without dropping the tank)

how you did that?

[JeremyG]

how you did that?

No magic, really - remove the inspection cover in the boot, disconnect cables x2, fuel hose x2 and breather hose. Use a mallet and large flat blade screwdriver to loosen the retaining ring and remove it. Then you can lift the pump assembly and carefully twist and rotate it up and out via the inspection hole. It only just fits, so prepare to be patient.

[JeremyG]

Well, I received my replacement Bosch fuel pump today, fitted it - and the car started straight off!

Fair bit of smoke (oil on the downpipe) and a tapping from the top of the engine (sticky cam follower?) but definitely a step in the right direction.

Need to check the coolant, lock down the pump assembly and go for a quick road test next. If the drivetrain is sound, she's a keeper!

Had a bit more time this evening so I completed refitting the pump, checked for leaks, re-attached the inspection cover and replaced the boot carpet.

Then I started the engine and let it run up to temperature - the thermostat opened and the temperature gauge steadied at 80 degrees.

While this was happening, I checked all of the lights, wipers, washers, windows, heater etc etc - and amazingly everything seems to work OK. Although I did chicken out of trying the sunroof...

Finally, I checked I could engage and move off in all gears.

So, barring a quick test drive, that's my initial checklist complete. Good news!

[dante giacosa]

Well done, sir!


That's incredible-

what a success story.

I admire your methodical approach- I really felt like I was 'living' those steps with you!


My relays are out of sync on the mount too. I think it's consistently wrong, relative to the manual though. Giallo Evo did a post on it once. I really should label mine up for identification in a crisis...

That's funny about the fuel pump- if that is the ONLY unsalvagable thing from the original configuration; it's not a hardship!


what else could go wrong before a test drive? Brake fluid? Gearbox oil?


P.S. I personally would use a copper-bristle-(hand)brush on the engine cover initially; it might be less aggressive.

This post has been edited by dante giacosa: 25th April 2018 21:37

[JeremyG]

Well done, sir!
That's incredible - what a success story.

Thanks, Dante... well, I do love a list...

The pump was a direct replacement at £35 so I can't complain about that - although I'll need a new battery, too - I'd like to think the fact the car had been looked after by Alfa specialists most of its life has made a difference.

Long term I'll need to replace all fluids and filters, cambelt, aux belt, water pump, all tensioners and spark plugs - discs and pads actually look OK so I may get away without changing those. But until I drive it I won't know what state the suspension is in... that'll happen on Friday, I reckon.

Good call on the wire brush - or I might even try an over scourer. The plastic tops are easier - put them through the dishwasher!

[dante giacosa]

dishwasher! thats funny

the dishwasher in my house, is typing this response...


there are many flavours of wire brush- the copper bristled one is least aggressive I think...